Performance modifications done at Squadron level. (2 Viewers)

[tomo pauk]

Hitting the aircraft skin might not even be fatal damage.

Imagine this - what if there was no armor behind the pilot in this case...

 

[Steamed_Banana]

Imagine this - what if there was no armor behind the pilot in this case...

You mean like this?

 

[Shortround6]

It looks like the shell exploded just outside the skin? The small holes below the large hole appear to be bent in and a lot of the "marks" seem to be missing paint. Certainly does not mean that there no fragments that went inside the Fuselage.
A lot of battle damage depends on whose shell it was and exactly which type of shell.
The famous German 20mm Mine shell.

Lots of HE, not a lot of metal, except for the fuse.
But at times only 40-50% of the ammo belt was filled with such rounds.
Since they could not put tracer into that shell body around 40% of the shells were these.

HE content was about 25% of the mine shell and the heavy construction meant larger fragments but not a lot of them. The entire rear portion of shell that held the tracer element might come off in one piece.
The fuses were often brass.
There were also some AP shells with base fuses and there were some AP tracer. And that is just German 20mm MG 151 ammo. Other types of German ammo or British ammo or Japanese ammo?

 

[NZTyphoon]

This is what happened to the Spitfire I, X4110 of 602 Sqn after being hit by some (probably) MG-FF/M Mine shells on 18 August 1940...total operational life = 1 hour.

Colours of mine shell would have been the same as those of the MG 151/20.

 

[Buz101]

You might be interested to know, that in two memoirs I just read by RAF / DAF Kittyhawk pilots, they both mentioned serious and virtually identical problems with the Allison engines, due they said to the dust, in particular with the bearings which would begin to disintegrate showing telltale 'silver fish' which needed to be rigorously checked for. In both cases these were pilots flying "Kittyhawk III" which could mean either P-40K or M. One pilot (Bert Horden) was in 112 Sqn RAF and one (DH Clarke) was in 450 Sqn RAAF, both operating from roughly mid 1943.

According to both pilots, if careful checking wasn't done after every mission, there was risk of a catastrophic emergency engine failure sometimes including a rupture of the crank case and a fire, according to Clarke. He also quoted some songs from 450 Sqn which bemoaned the problem. He also routinely mentions flying at 54" and 55" boost basically as soon as he saw German aircraft.

By this time (mid 1943) 112 Sqn was pretty much being relegated to fighter-bomber missions and 450 was mostly fighter-bomber strikes from the get-go I think, so it's possible they were getting clapped out planes from other squadrons like 260 RAF and 3 RAAF. But it could just mean that Allisons were not as reliable in these kinds of conditions as we have been led to believe.

The problems may be due to using high boost or may just be due to the dust, but I would guess probably both. They do also mention a filter but I guess it wasn't enough.

Just a couple of small points here, 112SQN were not "relegated" to Fighter Bomber Sorties, nor was 450 "mostly Fighter Bomber from the get go". I assume this is an accidental misinterpretation of what occurred. 450 started as a fighter Unit (actually started as a combined Unit (with 260 SQN) on Hurricanes in Mid 1941), and like all of the Kittyhawk Units changed to the Fighter Bomber role (Their first Bombing Sortie was mid Jun 42) as the Bombs were cleared for use and aircraft converted - the bombs were firstly 250lb British weapons, then continued to get heavier until a 2000lb bomb load was authorized to be used in later 1943 (most heavy bomb loads were normally around the 1500lb mark, however 500/1000lb was the standard load).

The Kittyhawk units being bomb armed gave far more flexibility and much faster turn around than the other "Light" bomber Units (Blenheim, Baltimore, Maryland Units) in the Middle East, at times the Kittyhawk Squadrons were running 4-6 operations with anything up to 40 plus sorties a day, not bad for Units running an I.E of 16 or 18 aircraft (not counting losses). Most Kittyhawk Fighter Bomber sorties were either self escorted, or covered by other Kittyhawks in the Escort role and it wasn't until later (Sept/Oct) in 1942, that Spitfires started to cover the Fighter Bomber Units.

Another quick note D.H Clarke was a flight commander in 250SQN - and a little rebellious as well (SQN markings spring to mind here) not 450SQN.

The Bearing issue with the V-1710 is an interesting topic in its own right, the early engines IIRC used lead-silver, while later engines were nickle-silver, however apart from this the only other change was how it was bonded to the bearing, which made for much less failures - earlier engines (C-15, -39 and -71) all seemed to have issues with the bearing lining and how it was bonded - after the change in bonding techniques there seemed to be less issues. The engines getting over boosted didn't help the bearing stay together, nor did the large number of engines being rebuilt and these weren't done very well (seems they also had issues binding the nickle-Silver), the engine condition being noted in many journals, diaries and in at least 1 case a formal complaint on the condition.

The formal complaint came from a SQN that collected 8 aircraft in Jun 1943, with one aircraft failing to make base due to a Crankshaft bearing failure, two others showing signs of failure (both were drained of oil after shavings were found in the Cuno filters, refilled with oil and run for 1 hour, with both showing even larger deposit after running, both were U/S'd as bearing failures). A further 13 aircraft were collected over the next 2 weeks, with one crashing due to engine failure on take off from the MU, and a further 4 having bearing failures - Many engines at this time were failing before they even made 30 hours since rebuild (Some as low as 4 hours before failing), but this also happened to be the time both the fore mentioned pilots were flying in the Kittyhawks.

Getting clapped out aircraft from 260SQN and 3RAAF (there were 8 RAF/SAAF/RAAF Kittyhawk Units at this time) is also a incorrect assumption, as at the time Horden and Clarke were at their respective Units, both 260SQN and 3RAAF were flying Kittyhawk II's with Merlin engines (although 260SQN was starting to convert to Kittyhawk IIIs).

The wire across the throttle was quite well known, and the AVG used a similar method for their V-1710C-15 engines, and regularly pushed "through the gate" as soon as combat was initiated. Compared to the Pilots notes for the Type - the differences between max boost, war rating and what was actually being used in combat could be as high as 20in.

Back to the Squadron conversion point - 450SQN did a conversion on Kittyhawk IV FT938, where they gave it clipped wings......... this however did not happen until Mid 1945......

Buz

 

[Buz101]

Yes, and Winkle Brown liked to mention the need to keep and eye on the manifold pressure.

I recall an article in Flypast I wished I had saved, but I gave the magazine to Kermit Weeks, since it had an article on the Sunderland. They found some still crated Hawk 81A and decided that while they were useless for combat in the ETO, they would make good aircraft for novice pilots to give bomber gunner trainees some practice at dealing with fast moving targets. They sent the first P-40 up, and the pilot just shoved the throttle forward and went roaring off, only to have the Allison blow its top soon after it got off the ground.

And I read of a P-40E pilot, surprised on the ground in the PI, who did a full panic takeoff as bombs fell from overhead, only to discover to his horror tat the manifold pressure gauge was reading only about 10 inches. He figured he was sunk, but he'd keep right on going away from the target area, gaining speed and altitude. Eventually he saw the gauge go DOWN further and finally figured out that the needle had gone right past the upper end of the gauge and started a new trip around the dial.

I believe the P-40M was the first with a manifold pressure regulator as standard equipment.

By the way they even added a manifold pressure regulator to the later model P-38's, even though they had a turbo with its own approach to regulation. For the photo recon birds this was a problem because the two regulating schemes fought each other, leading to a jerky flight path. This may have not been much of a problem for the fighters but for taking pictures it was unacceptable and the manifold regulators were removed at some recon units.

Errrrmmm not sure about the story on the Tomahawk as every BD flight (1681 to 1686) aircraft was in excess of 2 years old, and every one had previous service in SQN's, so found crated???? - not to sure about that, its very hard to misplace an aircraft for that long, and the timelines and Squadron use of BD aircraft is easily traced.

BD Flights got the Tomahawks after the Army Co-Op SQNs got rid of their last Tomahawks in mid 1943 (yes the Army Co-Op Sqnas had Mustangs by this time, but kept a couple of Tomahawks due to the Camera fits), and these stayed with BD fligths until mid 1944 (latest I've traced is Jul 44)

Buz

 

[MIflyer]

its very hard to misplace an aircraft for that long,

Well, I am writing from memory, but it seems that its is pretty easy to misplace them if they were bought under another country's contract and shipped somewhere else to keep them out of German hands. I do not think they ever uncrated some of the Hawk 75's the French ordered and that were delivered to French colonial possessions after the fall of France.

Another field mod made was when the 9th PRS in India modified a Lockheed F-4 with .50 cal machine guns in an effort to intercept a Japanese Dinah that was not only conducting uninterrupted recon but also supply taunting radio messages. The Dinah eventually was shot down by a stripped down P-40E, while the modified F-4 was used by the 9th for recreational strafing missions in Burma.