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Some things can be dated by a radioactive isotopes presence or not as being before or after Hiroshima Nagasaki and air tests of nuclear weapons.Without boring everyone to death, I will just point out that radiocarbon dating only works on organic material that was once alive and either absorbing carbon, in carbon dioxide, from the atmosphere (as in a general sense, plants), or by eating said plants (as in a general sense, animals).
Cheers
Steve (I was a chemist!)
This is an interesting article on the plunder of WWII pcean floor wrecks in the Indonesian archipelago
Wartime shipwrecks are being illegally salvaged. Are we powerless to stop it?
I remember when the Tutankhamun exhibition came to London. An expert explained that the Egyptians hid his tomb, so they searched for it. They sealed it up and the seal was broken. Tutankhamun was placed in a gold sarcophagus and mummified to protect the body and so the sarcophagus was opened and the body unwrapped then examined with photos and the body on display. It was complete disrespect for a dead person like a public dissection. The excuse is to obtain knowledge but the expeditions cost a fortune to mount. If the Pharaohs were buried in wooden boxes surrounded by nothing of worth the expeditions wouldn't have been mounted because no treasure and fame would have resulted from it.I agree to an extent, but I think at some point because of historical value it does belong in a museum. But I do see your point and understand it.
Some things can be dated by a radioactive isotopes presence or not as being before or after Hiroshima Nagasaki and air tests of nuclear weapons.
It is definitely possible but I don't know if it possible on metal.That may well be possible, I've no idea what particular isotopes they would look for, but that wouldn't be radiocarbon dating.
Cheers
Steve
I agree with both yourself and Steve, I was discussing radioactive contamination not radiocarbon dating.I'm with Steve and we have similar backgrounds in this. C-14 dating is for biologic materials. The process of radiocarbon dating measures the ratio of C-14 (radioactive) to C-12. C-14 has a half life of 5,730 YEARS so even if this were a valid method in this case it would be like trying to measure the diameter of a hair with a yard (meter) stick. For the same reason metal isotope decays would also be to crude to measure something so recent in time. AND even IF you could date the fragment to this period it would prove nothing.
....
I'm with Steve and we have similar backgrounds in this. C-14 dating is for biologic materials. The process of radiocarbon dating measures the ratio of C-14 (radioactive) to C-12. C-14 has a half life of 5,730 YEARS so even if this were a valid method in this case it would be like trying to measure the diameter of a hair with a yard (meter) stick. For the same reason metal isotope decays would also be to crude to measure something so recent in time. AND even IF you could date the fragment to this period it would prove nothing.
The best that could be done here is similar to (Old can of worms) the TIGHAR researches on Gardner (Nikumaroro) Island for Earhart's Electra. Many pieces of aluminum alloy have been found there and the metal can be analysed and its composition determined. That composition can then be compared to the various aluminum alloys used in aircraft construction at the time the Electra was built. If the compositions match, even if exactly, ALL you can say is that the piece COULD have come from the aircraft in question. Since more than one aircraft was made with that blend of metals.
Bottom line, unless you have a serial number....
I wonder how much this would cost? I want to find out. Dai
The tests are actually cheap to run, that doesn't mean that they are cheap because the equipment costs a fortune. The big problem is finding someone with the expertise to make the judgement, in practice you will get a lot of provisos and caveats that amount to a very big "It could be but then again it may not be"I assume you mean an analysis of the material. I have no idea how much that would cost, but it wouldn't prove anything decisively anyway.
The best result would show that it was material used in the construction of Japanese aircraft during the relevant period. It won't prove that the artefact is what it is purporting to be. There must be tons of that stuff littered around the Pacific.
Cheers
Steve
This wreck is located in the jungle near Moila Point, a few kilometers off the Panguna-Buin road near Aku. A path has been cut through the jungle to the site and requires an hour walk from the main road. Today, the wreck is closely guarded from theft or removal of any souvenirs.
Since the 1960s, Japanese delegations have visited the crash site, and erected a memorial plaque on the admiral's seat, and often leave memorial sticks at the site.
The fuselage door, a section of the outer wing and Yamamoto's seat were recovered from the crash site during the 1970s. Other smaller relics were also salvaged, including one of the control columns, and the aircraft's manufacture number stencil were in the possession of RAAF 183rd Reconnaissance Flight, Pacific Island Regiment, based at Lae during the 1970s (the fate of these items today is unknown).
The fuselage door, outer wing panel and seat were donated and were displayed at The Air Museum of Papua New Guinea until it closed in the late 1970s and were transferred to the PNG Museum. In the 1990s, the outer wing panel and seat were placed on permanent loan to the Isoroku Yamamoto Memorial Hall & Museum.
Richard Rudd recalls visiting the site in October 1968:
"While on an aerial mapping project, based out of Buin in October.1968 and the 'kiaps' at the time, (Australians), whilst imbibing and in conversation at the Buin Club, mentioned that a couple of weeks prior to our arrival, they had escorted a group of Japanese, complete with maps and WWII drawings to try and relocate the crash site. Which they did. We asked if it would be possible to be guided there again and when their time permitted, we drove up the coast/ inland track, getting permissions from various villages, until we quit the road and hiked off into the jungle for an hour or so. First sight was a wing, with Hinomaru leaning against a forest tree, a flap? and then the bulk of the rear fuselage and engines. Much forward was all crushed and burnt and the Admirals seat by the rear door. In the jungle quiet, it was a sad scene to contemplate. Author Terry Gynne-Jones did a comprehensive article, with excellent color pictures in GEO magazine in the late 1970s"
View attachment 469250
Japanese ambassador to PNG HE Hiroharu Iwasaki with Deputy Director of National Planning
Unfortunately without a serial number or a documented "Chain of Custody" there is no way to say for certain. A metallurgical analysis could tell you IF the alloy content matches the alloys used at the time by the Japanese BUT that still does not prove it is actually from Yamamoto's Betty.
Just as an aside: you can also buy pieces of the "True Cross" on Ebay AND various relics of various Saints (Human remains not allowed by Ebay)
Advice as old as time: Caveat Emptor
View attachment 469268
This wreck is located in the jungle near Moila Point, a few kilometers off the Panguna-Buin road near Aku. A path has been cut through the jungle to the site and requires an hour walk from the main road. Today, the wreck is closely guarded from theft or removal of any souvenirs.
Since the 1960s, Japanese delegations have visited the crash site, and erected a memorial plaque on the admiral's seat, and often leave memorial sticks at the site.
The fuselage door, a section of the outer wing and Yamamoto's seat were recovered from the crash site during the 1970s. Other smaller relics were also salvaged, including one of the control columns, and the aircraft's manufacture number stencil were in the possession of RAAF 183rd Reconnaissance Flight, Pacific Island Regiment, based at Lae during the 1970s (the fate of these items today is unknown).
The fuselage door, outer wing panel and seat were donated and were displayed at The Air Museum of Papua New Guinea until it closed in the late 1970s and were transferred to the PNG Museum. In the 1990s, the outer wing panel and seat were placed on permanent loan to the Isoroku Yamamoto Memorial Hall & Museum.
Richard Rudd recalls visiting the site in October 1968:
"While on an aerial mapping project, based out of Buin in October.1968 and the 'kiaps' at the time, (Australians), whilst imbibing and in conversation at the Buin Club, mentioned that a couple of weeks prior to our arrival, they had escorted a group of Japanese, complete with maps and WWII drawings to try and relocate the crash site. Which they did. We asked if it would be possible to be guided there again and when their time permitted, we drove up the coast/ inland track, getting permissions from various villages, until we quit the road and hiked off into the jungle for an hour or so. First sight was a wing, with Hinomaru leaning against a forest tree, a flap? and then the bulk of the rear fuselage and engines. Much forward was all crushed and burnt and the Admirals seat by the rear door. In the jungle quiet, it was a sad scene to contemplate. Author Terry Gynne-Jones did a comprehensive article, with excellent color pictures in GEO magazine in the late 1970s"
View attachment 469250
Japanese ambassador to PNG HE Hiroharu Iwasaki with Deputy Director of National Planning