PLEASE OFFER YOUR HONEST OPINIONS...

[gumbyk]

When they arrived, they found Yamamoto's sword and Admiral rank insignia (shoulder bars) missing. They have never been located to this day.

Yamamoto had been thrown clear of the plane's wreckage, his white-gloved hand grasping the hilt of his katana sword, his body still upright in his seat under a tree.

There seems to be a contradiction here - did he have his sword or not?

I'm not surprised that he removed his rank insignia if he had the opportunity - I can't imagine that the locals would treat him too well, and ritual cannibalism was still routinely practiced. As for his katana, that may have given him away as high-ranking as well, so may have been similarly disposed of.

 

[DAI PHAN]

There seems to be a contradiction here - did he have his sword or not?

I'm not surprised that he removed his rank insignia if he had the opportunity - I can't imagine that the locals would treat him too well, and ritual cannibalism was still routinely practiced. As for his katana, that may have given him away as high-ranking as well, so may have been similarly disposed of.

This is from Ron Cole website on how he got the relics. Thoughts please. DP

Aviation Art of Ron Cole & Cole's Aircraft: Yamamoto's Aircraft Wreck: History, Art, and Relics by Ron Cole

 

[DAI PHAN]

I have read somewhere that there was NO wounds on his body at all. It was concluded by the pathologist that he died of internal and shock injuries. According the Mr. Cole's article he said the near death co pilot placed the Admiral body in an upright position before he died. But the people who visited wreck said the entire from half of the plane was burned and crushed. Interesting. DP

 

[pbehn]

This is from Ron Cole website on how he got the relics. Thoughts please. DP

Aviation Art of Ron Cole & Cole's Aircraft: Yamamoto's Aircraft Wreck: History, Art, and Relics by Ron Cole

With all works of art the question is do you like the picture yourself. Without the piece of metal would you be happy at the price and proud to hang it on the wall. Do you consider the metal increases the pictures value or that the painting increases the metals value. For my money I believe you can buy an original painting or sketch for the same price with absolute certainty of provenance done by Winston Churchill who was a prolific artist but not of course notorious.
Winston Churchill's paintings auctioned from Essex collection

 

[DAI PHAN]

There seems to be a contradiction here - did he have his sword or not?

I'm not surprised that he removed his rank insignia if he had the opportunity - I can't imagine that the locals would treat him too well, and ritual cannibalism was still routinely practiced. As for his katana, that may have given him away as high-ranking as well, so may have been similarly disposed of.

I read on wiki that the other admiral who survived the Yamamoto ambush in the second Betty that crashed in the water later rode in a three seater on the final kamikaze mission. His plane was shot down in the final dive. He removed his rank insignia before the final mission and was documented in the final photograph before taking off. Dai

 

[DAI PHAN]

With all works of art the question is do you like the picture yourself. Without the piece of metal would you be happy at the price and proud to hang it on the wall. Do you consider the metal increases the pictures value or that the painting increases the metals value. For my money I believe you can buy an original painting or sketch for the same price with absolute certainty of provenance done by Winston Churchill who was a prolific artist but not of course notorious.
Winston Churchill's paintings auctioned from Essex collection

I want to have a piece of history so I can respect its history. Not for profit later at all. Dai

 

[pbehn]

I want to have a piece of history so I can respect its history. Not for profit later at all. Dai

The piece of history is just a piece of metal, the picture and the accompanying "blurb" add false authenticity to a piece of metal in my opinion.

 

[rochie]

Picture looks no better than a screen grab from Il-2 if i am being honest, i am no fan of this "artist" i will admit

 

[mikewint]

I heard/read all of those. As I read it there were two Japanese parties. An initial rescue party and a recovery party. The initial party found him as posted still in his seat under a tree. When the second party arrived to recover the body the sword and insignia were missing.
As to the wounds or not I've read read three, no wounds except a cut over his eye, one bullet wound through his chair and into his chest, and the two wounds chest and head. Since these were .50 cal the wounds would have been massive. The initial report from the Japanese doctor was censored to preserve Yamamoto's image.
The US initially tried its best to hush up the entire mission afraid that the Japanese would realize that their Naval code had been broken. Through pilot "gossip" the story finally leaked

 

[pbehn]

Picture looks no better than a screen grab from Il-2 if i am being honest, i am no fan of this "artist" i will admit

If you have a genuine WW2 "Betty" then by accompanying each small piece of it with a picture and charging $100,000 would make it among the most valuable planes in the world.

 

[pbehn]

Through pilot "gossip" the story finally leaked

Did it leak before the end of the war?

 

[pbehn]

Picture looks no better than a screen grab from Il-2 if i am being honest, i am no fan of this "artist" i will admit

If you have a genuine WW2 "Betty" then by accompanying each small piece of it with a picture and charging $100,000 would make it among the most valuable planes in the world.

 

[tyrodtom]

.
The US initially tried its best to hush up the entire mission afraid that the Japanese would realize that their Naval code had been broken. Through pilot "gossip" the story finally leaked

A good example of "military intelligence ".
It like we thought the Japanese didn't know who was shot down, or who shot them down, and they're supposed to think this was just some random encounter.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

There seems to be a contradiction here - did he have his sword or not?

All the reports I have read state that the sword was still on him.

 

[swampyankee]

Where a death is involved I believe any relics should be the property of relatives and museums.

That's never been the case, especially in a case of government property: Yamamoto's heirs have no rights to the pieces of the IJN's airplane. Neither, one could argue, does somebody looting a crash site.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Picture looks no better than a screen grab from Il-2 if i am being honest, i am no fan of this "artist" i will admit

Same here. I have never been a fan of it.

I am not saying his work is not any good, just that it is not my style of "art".

 

[parsifal]

You're taking your life into your hands if you try to even visit crash sites in PNG now. Yamamoto's plane may be different, but I'm fairly sure you'd have to get permission from everyone you came across. Even then there's no guarantee that you won't come across someone who doesn't want you there and takes matters into his own hands.
Visiting other sites (even with government permission) is nearly impossible. I have friends who spent a few nights in PNG jail because they wanted to just visit sites and film. They had permission from one government department, but were told they didn't need any more permissions. Guess the advice they got was wrong, and they didn't pay the right bribes.

I generally agree, however its not as wild as it may seem, although bougainville in particular is a hotbed of simmering land ownership disputes. just for the record, Bougainville is not part of PNG. it is a separate state, quite independent of the Port Moresby administration

The issue fuelling the problem is land ownership. it is quite reasonable for landowners to want admission fees paid for access onto their land. the problem is that land ownership in the Solomons is not defined by survey or government record. its governed by tribal ownership, passed down by word of mouth, often on the basis of handshake deals. If money is likely to be derived from ownership, in an impoverished, uneducated society like the Solomons, its not hard to work out what is likely to happen.

but it is possible to view these sites in relative safety, you just need the permissions. that's best arranged via the organized tour parties

Nocookies

 

[stona]

I think if a dealer/seller is selling such important artifacts he/she would have secured some proof that it actually is the real thing don't you think? DP

You can't assume that. Provenance is everything for this sort of artefact, as it is for any antique or artwork. If the seller had such provenance you never asked for the proof of it and now you don't have it.

You asked for honest opinions. Mine is that you have a piece of metal that may be from a Japanese aircraft, may be from Yamamoto's aircraft, but you can't prove it. It's just a piece of metal, worth the same as a piece from any scrapyard without that provenance.

Cheers

Steve

 

[pbehn]

You can't assume that. Provenance is everything for this sort of artefact, as it is for any antique or artwork. If the seller had such provenance you never asked for the proof of it and now you don't have it.

You asked for honest opinions. Mine is that you have a piece of metal that may be from a Japanese aircraft, may be from Yamamoto's aircraft, but you can't prove it. It's just a piece of metal, worth the same as a piece from any scrapyard without that provenance.

Cheers

Steve

He also has a picture Steve.

 

[swampyankee]

I think if a dealer/seller is selling such important artifacts he/she would have secured some proof that it actually is the real thing don't you think? DP

One would, wouldn't one? Sales of fraudulent relics is a very lively business. Caveat emptor, in spades.