Propeller Specs, Hawker Hurricane

Discussion in 'Schematics' started by shimmerz, Aug 31, 2010.

  1. shimmerz

    shimmerz New Member

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    Hi.

    I am currently doing an assignment on the Hawker Hurricane Mk 1 and am unable to find data on the propeller used.

    I am specifically after enough information to perform blade element analysis theory, which will require things such as the rate of twist of the blades, chord lengths.. e.c.t

    Im pretty sure this may have been asked before but im having trouble finding a relevant answer among the hundreds of results i get when searching "propeller geometry"

    Any information on a propeller with diamater around 11ft will be appriciated, as i do not need the exact same one used, rather i have to find one that will work for it.


    Thanks in advance
     
  2. mudpuppy

    mudpuppy Member

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  3. Colin1

    Colin1 Active Member

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    The little that I have, no significant technical depth but a start

    Work with the de Havilland propeller began on 29Aug38 with trials of their two-pitch, three-speed metal propeller on L1562. It used a fine pitch of 30.5degs for take-off and 42.4degs for coarse pitch in flight, this airscrew, although incurring a weight penalty of almost 300lbs, bestowed a significant improvement in the climb, reducing the time to rated altitude by a full minute. Flight trials on L1562 continued for several months and although the overspeeding and dive characteristics left much to be desired - commencing with L1780, issued to 213 Sqn in January 1939 - were fitted with the new DH propeller.

    It is worth mentioning that Germany had, as early as 1937, recognised the considerable benefit bestowed on fighter performance by the use of variable-pitch propellers, for in the Spring of that year - eight months before a production Hurricane had even flown - 24 Bf109B-2s, equipped with Hamilton two-blade, variable-pitch airscrews, had been supplied to the first and second Staffeln of Jagdgruppe 88 of the Condor Legion fighting in the Spanish Civil War. By 1939, VDM propellers were standard on the Luftwaffe's Bf109E fighters.

    By the end of 1938, the firm of Rotol Ltd was, under Air Ministry contract, testing an hydraulically-operated constant-speed, three-bladed propeller. Hawkers recognised the obvious benefits of this airscrew and, after the announcement of the Merlin III by Rolls-Royce, featuring a standardised propeller shaft capable of taking either the Hamilton or Rotol unit, determined to demonstrate the advantages and set about a trial installation.

    Purchasing back an old airframe from the Air Ministry L1606 (ex 56 Sqn), Hawkers installed a Merlin III (No. 11111) with a 10ft 6in diameter Rotol three-blade, wide-pitch-range propeller. Trials demonstrated a performance at an AUW of 6,402lbs possessing a top speed of 328mph at 16,200ft and a time to 15,000ft of 6.2 minutes.
     

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  4. shimmerz

    shimmerz New Member

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    Wow, thats great information.

    Im doing Aeronautical Engineering in and the assignment pretty much is to obtain thrust requirements for takeoff, climb and cruise and then pick an engine and propellor and prove that they could meet the required levels using different theoretical approaches.

    I have the BHP output of the Merlin II for different RPM settings and altitudes, along with the specific fuel consumption. This engine was used however briefly on the Hawker Hurricane before they upgraded it to the Merlin III and other variants.

    I have got all my thrust requirements from the three cases using data taken from here and there, including the original manual and a card dated to 1941 regarding take off length and other things. The only thing im missing is a propeller with its chord lengths and twist rates.

    My plan if i cant get this information (which is quite likely) is to use a modern one and scale it to the length of 11' 2'' ft diameter, which is what everyone else seems to be doing i the class who chose older planes.

    Its a shame that in engineering all you do is simplify everything into worst case scenarios, that varying climb rate would have been golden information last year but im allowed to just whack a general 12.8 m/s at sea level and design for that.

    I appriciate the help guys. If anyone is interested in the Thrust of the Hawker Hurricane ill post what i get from my work up here
     
  5. shimmerz

    shimmerz New Member

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    also i checked that forum page u linked before, it was interesting but not what i required. Thanks though
     
  6. Colin1

    Colin1 Active Member

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    There's other data in my source
    if you can wait until I get home I'll post up more, I'm sure there was performance data on different Merlin versions
     
  7. shimmerz

    shimmerz New Member

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    That will be great. Ideally all i need is engine output in bhp and specific fuel consumption at sea level and 20000ft for different RPM. i do have this for the Merlin II but id like it if i could use a more advance model as it will make my report look better and my propeller wont have to be as efficient.

    If u cant find it dont worry. Thanks
     
  8. Colin1

    Colin1 Active Member

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    #8 Colin1, Sep 1, 2010
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2010
    Hawker Hurricane Mk I

    Powerplant
    Rolls-Royce Merlin III
    1,029hp @ 3,000rpm @ 16,250ft @ +6.25lbs/sq in boost
    971hp @ not given @ 12,250ft @ +5.9lbs/sq in boost

    Propeller
    Rotol 3-bladed constant-speed right-hand Type RMS 7 pitch range 35degs
    Diameter 10ft 9ins

    Performance
    Range (aircraft flying at optimum range speed 190mph TAS, mean flying weight 5,830lbs, mean ICAN altitude 15,000ft)
    Mk I with Merlin III + Rotol, 505 statute miles or 425 miles with 20 minute reserve
     
  9. shimmerz

    shimmerz New Member

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    Thanks for that info..

    I figured out how im getting around the propeller problem. all i now need is how big the hub was and i can start my analysis. looking that up now will probably find it shortly
     
  10. Colin1

    Colin1 Active Member

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    #10 Colin1, Sep 3, 2010
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2010
    More than likely
    one of the modellers on here can help you with that using a built 1/72, 1/48, 1/32 or possibly 1/24 scale Hurricane I; using the actual size dimensions on here a bit of number juggling should give you a decent approximation of the hub size.
     
  11. Colin1

    Colin1 Active Member

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    Oh
    I found some specific fuel consumptions last night but forgot to post them up, I seem to remember hesitating because I couldn't confirm that they were for the Merlin III but I'll take another look tonight and post them up if you still want to see them just as general reference figures for a Merlin in a Hurricane
     
  12. NZTyphoon

    NZTyphoon Member

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    For interest the RAF converted all de Havilland two-pitch propellers to constant-speed units in June 1940 - this included those Hurricane Is which still used these units.

    This 1941 article is about the materials used in propeller blades. (NB: This and the next page, then scroll down past "Northern Aluminium" advert to next 3½ pages.)
     
  13. shimmerz

    shimmerz New Member

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    hey thanks everyone, ive got enough information to finish the assignment. im going with a custom propeller due to the lack of like mathematical information regarding the variation of blade angle and chord length. the Merlin II data i already have is fine and i really dont need the Merlin III, although i appriciate the help.

    All i need now is my MATLAB coding to start working.
     
  14. shimmerz

    shimmerz New Member

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    Sorry to bring this back up but i found i need some more information...

    Does anyone know what the gearing on the propeller was.

    I know the engine did up to 3000 RPM but if the propeller was rotating at the same speed it would go supersonic and will thus cause a large amount of problems.

    Generically were WWII propellers tip speeds limited? was this the case for the hurricane
     
  15. Colin1

    Colin1 Active Member

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    0.477:1
     
  16. shimmerz

    shimmerz New Member

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    cool, where did u get that from?
     
  17. Colin1

    Colin1 Active Member

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    The Hawker Hurricane
    by Francis K Mason

    my copy's getting a bit threadbare but it's a decent enough reference
     
  18. shimmerz

    shimmerz New Member

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    ok.... ive been thinking though, ive been designing a constant speed propeller. that would make the gearing rather irrelevant, as a change in RPM of the engine will only change the blade/pitch angle of the propeller, and hence increase thrust via effective angle of attack of the propeller.


    lol what im looking for now (which i can just take a random guess at really) is just the rotational speed of the propeller.

    My current design was to have a constant angle of attack over the blade... but thinking about it now i can see that it would be too sensitive to changes in pitch

    the only way this will not be a problem is if the RPM speed of the propeller (not engine) is less that 800 RPM.... and although i have no knowledge in this stuff (yet...) i think its unlikely that they are less than this

    back to researching
     
  19. Ivan1GFP

    Ivan1GFP Member

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    I'm in a bit late in this game (literally), but your assumption about the gearing on the propeller being irrelevant with a CS prop is incorrect. There is still the consideration of the propeller power coefficient and efficiency at various advance ratios.

    I believe I have a shop manual for the Hurricane (hard bound book) floating around somewhere if you need some specific information.

    One interesting consideration is the difference in engine installations between the Spitfire Mk.VIII / Mk.IX as versus the P-51B/C/D which all used pretty much the same engine but different propellers and gearing.

    - Ivan.
     
  20. shimmerz

    shimmerz New Member

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    Ive pretty much finished the assignment

    I had a few mistakes in my coding program when i last posted,

    Pretty much i designed my own propeller, had it spinning at 1150 RPM which keeps the tip around mach 0.8 and adds in compresibility factors. i can get the efficiency up to 86% for a slow cruise at 220 MPH which was alot less than the plane was capable of at 20000ft

    I appriciate the help though but no longer need it.

    Thanks
     
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