Question about FM-2 belly windows

[Hoggardhigh]

Hi all,

From what I've read, the FM-2 dispensed with the underbelly windows seen on earlier Wildcat variants, but many photos indicate that the provisions for them were retained.

However, the early-production FM-2 in the above photo doesn't appear to have any provisions for the windows.

Does anyone on this site have a likely explanation for this?

Thanks ☺

 

[MIflyer]

Well, the panels in that area look much the same as he FM-1, except for the windows.

 

[Wurger]

It appears that many FM-2s could have the windows faired over with a smooth metal panel. However I have seen two other pics of FM-2s where these panels aren't seen in. One of these images is of caption that's an early FM-2 similar to the one posted above.

 

[Hoggardhigh]

"However I have seen two other pics of FM-2s where these panels aren't seen in."

Anybody here have a possible explanation for that?

 

[Wurger]

I would say the pics aren't of the greatest quality. And that can be the reason. Another explanation can be that not all FM-2s had the metal plates installed because the panel with the window was just of one piece of metal skin without the window hole.

Here is the next shot of a FM-2. The panel there is almost unoticeable. I have had to enlarge the area and then it can be seen although not too clearly.

the pic source: FM-2 Wildcat code A16 of VC-78 on board the escort carrier USS Matanikau CVE-101, 16 November 16 1944 | World War Photos

Also having a post war shot of a nice quality it is quite difficult to notice it even if enlarged..

the pic source: F4F 'Wildcat'

 

[P-39 Expert]

What was the purpose of the little window?

 

[MIflyer]

As I said in my post, and then had it disappear, the photos I posted show that the panel with the windows is installed with screws rather than rivets, so it would not be impossible to replace the whole panel without resorting to depot level maintenance, if desired.

 

[fubar57]

What was the purpose of the little window?

From Squadron F4F Wildcat Walk Around; "The Wildcat's mid-wing design led to a very limited view below the aircraft and the F4F-3 and F4F-4 had a pair of windows mounted in the lower fuselage under the cockpit to give the pilot some view below the aircraft. These windows were deleted on later variants of Wildcat." The cockpit floor also had cutouts to allow the pilot to see the windows

 

[R Leonard]

Belly windows in F4F-3s, -3As, -4s, FM-1s, and some of the early -2s dated back to pre-war thinking for a limited dive bombing capability in fighter aircraft. F4F type Wildcats could, and did, carry small bombs under the wings, as I recall, somewhere in the neighborhood of 100# each, one under each wings. According to an F4F driver of my acquaintance (who was in VS-41 flying SBUs in 1940 when it was re-designated VF-42 and everyone transitioned to the F4F-3, ergo, he knew more than just a little about dive-bombing practices) the best way to execute such an attack in an F4F was to fly over one's target and when you could first see it appear through the belly windows that was the time to roll over and execute your attack. The caveat was that such attacks were pretty much by "seaman's eye" since the F4F had no sighting capability for bombing.

In practice, there was little use for the capability. At Lae-Salamaua in March 1942, for example, the VF-3 F4Fs off Lexington were, indeed, equipped with bombs and executed attacks on various anchored Japanese shipping with little to show for the effort. At the same time, the also present Yorktown VF-42 F4Fs not only did not carry any bombs, but the Yorktown air staff had long ago decided that this was a pretty pointless exercise for F4Fs and had removed the hard points for carrying pip-squeak bombs, leaving the planes for their primary purpose, fighters.

Of course, the irony was that by the end of the war USN F6F and F4U fighters were routinely hauling 1,000 lbs of bombs as a matter of course and FMs up to 500 lbs. These, however, were, for the most, part delivered to customers in a glide-bombing attack profile as opposed to true dive-bombing and the airplanes were equipped with sights that could be set for bombs, rockets, or guns.

 

[P-39 Expert]

From Squadron F4F Wildcat Walk Around; "The Wildcat's mid-wing design led to a very limited view below the aircraft and the F4F-3 and F4F-4 had a pair of windows mounted in the lower fuselage under the cockpit to give the pilot some view below the aircraft. These windows were deleted on later variants of Wildcat." The cockpit floor also had cutouts to allow the pilot to see the windows

Thanks.

 

[MIflyer]

The F4F's at Wake Island did drop bombs on an IJN destroyer.

By the way, I think it odd that the F3F had no sign of belly windows, and it could carry bombs, but in that case the cockpit was far enough aft of the lower wing that the pilot could look down.

At least some models of the F2A had a large belly window, See attached.

 

[Elvis]

...wouldn't the little windows allow the pilot to see through his otherwise blind underbelly?...could be a valuable asset during a dogfight.

 

[fubar57]

The prototype XF4F-2 had 4 lower windows as did the XF4F-3...

USN [Public domain], via Wikimedia Commons​

 

[MIflyer]

In a dogfight I don't think you have time to be peering out of the belly windows.

Now, belly windows can be very useful for lining up to take pictures on recon missions. They would have loved to have had some kind of a belly window on the F-4 and F-5 Lightnings but there was no good way to do that because of the nose gear location. They did have a recon version of the F4F, but I doubt that was any kind of a consideration.

 

[fubar57]

At least 10 were converted to F4F-3P. All were field conversions at Navy repair depots. The camera was installed in the lower fuselage and the pulley operated trap door covering the opening. The camera installation wasn't standardized and varied between aircraft. A number saw service with Marine Observation Squadron(VMO 251) and at least two saw service with Fighter Squadron (VF-41) during the invasion of N. Africa. Known BuNos. are 1849, 1852, 1856, 1865, 1867, 1870, 1871, 1875, 1880, and 1894. I haven't found a pic yet

 

[MIflyer]

The lower fuselage area behind the cockpit on the F4F was huge, easily big enough to take a full grown man through that big hatch on the side, I've even read where they did carry a person in there for short trips. The F3F had a similar large area. In the movie "Flight Command" an F3F crashes and one of the others in the formation lands on the beach next to him, and the pilot removed the radio transmitter, and stuck the injured pilot in the compartment to give him a ride back to San Diego.

 

[Elvis]

What is that ribbed "bottle" at the top of the pic?
Oxygen? Water?

 

[fubar57]

Pneumatic accumulator.

 

[Elvis]

Thank You.

 

[Norm]

I was also told (a long time ago) that pilots could visually check the position of the landing gear if the "Down and Locked" indicator light(s) were not working.