Ready for El Alamein: ideal British tanks

[redcoat]

, one might picture himself the Churchill in Soviet use, armed with their 57mm - the Tiger-hunting Winnie...

In the Italian and Northern European campaigns one troop out of each squadron of Churchill tanks was armed with the 6 pdr (with APDS) to give them some ability to deal with the heavy German tanks

 

[redcoat]

In March 1943 s.Pz.-Abt. 501 was succeeded by s.Pz.-Abt. 504. During the two months it operated in Tunisia before the surrender of all Axis troops in Tunisia, s.Pz.-Abt. 504 destroyed more than 150 enemy tanks and had a kill ratio of 18.8 enemy tanks for every Tiger lost".

These are raw claims, they have not been confirmed by any research as far as I'm aware, and if true would mean that Tigers destroyed nearly half of the US and British tanks lost in the period these units were in operation in Tunisia.

 

[parsifal]

These are raw claims, they have not been confirmed by any research as far as I'm aware, and if true would mean that Tigers destroyed nearly half of the US and British tanks lost in the period these units were in operation in Tunisia.

I agree, but then you would have to apply similar tests to the claims made by allied tankers as well. In the end we need figures of the admitted losses for each side, and put that up against the claims that are made by each side.

Im no fan of the tiger, incidentally. I think its reputation is vastly overblown, and its real costs to german industry and the economy cleverly concealed. It was an expensive toy that acquired a fearsome reputation. How much of that reputation was real and how much imagined, is open to debate.

 

[tomo pauk]

In the Italian and Northern European campaigns one troop out of each squadron of Churchill tanks was armed with the 6 pdr (with APDS) to give them some ability to deal with the heavy German tanks

That was a sensible thing to do, indeed. The 6 pdr APDS should be able to harm Tiger I (both vs. hull and vs. turret) and Panther G (turret, but not front hull, according to this).

These are raw claims, they have not been confirmed by any research as far as I'm aware, and if true would mean that Tigers destroyed nearly half of the US and British tanks lost in the period these units were in operation in Tunisia.

Seems like we need a thread about tank/AT claims and kills

 

[redcoat]

Seems like we need a thread about tank/AT claims and kills

That would be a king-size can of worms !!!!

 

[parsifal]

Oh yes....there are previous member that claim not a single Tiger lost to direct enemy action in the whole of Normandy. Tigers are a sacred cow of the first order.....Im surpised we have not been attacked for our heresies even nowk

 

[Shortround6]

Why Yes, obviously you are not aware that NOT A SINGLE TIGER TANK was taken out by direct enemy fire. ALL TIGER losses are a result of the crews being STABBED IN THE BACK by home front politicians.........


Oh, wait.....that was World War I, sorry

 

[stug3]

Chevrolet truck and its three man crew in the Western Desert. The gunner beside the driver is manning an Italian Breda machine gun, while the soldier in the back is ready with the Lewis gun.

Two fully loaded LRDG Chevrolet 30cwt trucks, 1942.

 

[redcoat]

Oh yes....there are previous member that claim not a single Tiger lost to direct enemy action in the whole of Normandy. Tigers are a sacred cow of the first order.....Im surpised we have not been attacked for our heresies even nowk

The first Tiger lost to direct enemy fire in Normandy was taken out by a British Sherman with a 75mm gun firing at it's frontal armour !!!!!
The two tanks blundered into one another on a narrow lane, the Sherman crew reacted first and hit the Tiger on the drivers vision port wounding the driver and causing a small fire inside the tank. The Tiger's commander on hearing the cry of the wounded driver and seeing the smoke ordered the crew to bale out, the tank was then captured by the British who found it in full working order.

 

[DonL]

Oh yes....there are previous member that claim not a single Tiger lost to direct enemy action in the whole of Normandy. Tigers are a sacred cow of the first order.....Im surpised we have not been attacked for our heresies even nowk

That's not correct!
Soeren claimed that no TigerII was ever penetrated frontal from any enemy tank at the western front (especially battle of the bulge).
And till now there is no real prove for the contrary.

 

[redcoat]

That's not correct!
Soeren claimed that no TigerII was ever penetrated frontal from any enemy tank at the western front (especially battle of the bulge).
And till now there is no real prove for the contrary.

One of the first Tiger II's lost on the Western Front was lost when its crew abandoned it after being rammed by a British Sherman during Operation Goodwood. !!!!

 

[DonL]

Is ramming frontal penetration?

 

[redcoat]

Is ramming frontal penetration?

In this case no, it hit it on the rear drive sprocket.

 

[DonL]

So!!!!!, No one here in this forum ever claimed that no Tiger II was lost or abandoned by it's crew after my memory, only that no Tiger II was ever penetrated from the front, equal at which range from an enemy tank.

 

[redcoat]

So!!!!!, No one here in this forum ever claimed that no Tiger II was lost or abandoned by it's crew after my memory, only that no Tiger II was ever penetrated from the front, equal at which range from an enemy tank.

I never claimed that they had.
I merely thought the story was interesting

 

[stug3]

A Churchill tank leaves a tank landing craft (TLC 121) during a combined operations exercise at Thorness Bay on the Isle of Wight, 27 May 1942

 

[parsifal]

Looks wet

 

[stug3]

Grant tanks of 3rd Royal Tank Regiment in the Western Desert, 24 March 1942.

The driver of a Grant tank takes a closer look at a gouge in the armour plate made by a 50mm anti-tank round, Libya, June 1942.

 

[vinnye]

That would have made your ears ring!

 

[Glider]

He was a lucky boy