Revell Junkers 88 A1 1:32scale

ok..here its now again time for some news and a historylesson regarding the Ju 88 1:32 kit and a strange symbol that is also present with the decals ( and goes on U4+TK BUT... also on the others if you want to )
but there is a lot behind this symbol and it took me quite some time to figure it out..it was all made clear by a old Ju 88 pilot i spoke with two years ago.
In the beginning after the salvage we thought it might had to do with x fliegerkorps ( 10th ) but the way it was painted was puzzeling..it was not a X as it was tilted the wrong way..this was a not known mark on a Ju 88 and never seen ( or so we thought ) .. so we figured it might be a nordic rune as that was very poular back then..and by the position and tilting we thought it was the "N" rune ( written like a X stanind up like painted on the fuselage..both sides )
but then i meet this old pilot..and he could tell what this was.. This symbol was pianted on the early Ju 88`s that had the top secret Knickelbein system installed so pilots knew what plane had this installed..and its not a X but symbolic for the two homingbeams that make up the secret system !! this was also used during BOB and it was the leaderplanes in the beginning that had this installed..suddenly when watching the god old classic 1940 BoB movie i saw something familiar..so there it also was..plain in sight for 68 years and nobody has ever noticed... so for all you BoB modellers..this you can paint on your models ( will be a decal in the 1:32 ) and not go wrong with it !!! some had it o the fuselage..some on the tail..and some even both places ( as i was told ) below is a picture where i hold up a test on our tail..
but we have not decided if we will paint it on the tail yet as we know it was on the fuselage but not sure if it was on the tail as that was removed by the germans before the Ju 88 sank.. so i will give you guys a challenge. shall we paint it on the tail or not ?? when the 88 was salvaged this X was white..that peeled of and underneath it was yellow so you have also two colourschoises there

you will also see on the pictures below a screenshot i took out of the BoB movie..where you can clearly see the X painted on the vertical ( its from the scene where two guys throw the vertical on a garbagepile )

most of the pinat hav etoday peeled of the original fuselage..but the X will be painted back on in the future on the fuselage..but not sure about the tail yet..any comments ?

If the tail was removed before she sank, they could have done for a good reason, who knows.... I say paint on the X tail as well, or go with what your gut feeling say....

here is two pictures that shows that in some squadrons ( in this case KG 100 ) it was common to paint the same letters on the fuselage also on the vertical..and the picture from the BoB movie shows that the X painted on our fuselage was also painted on the vertical on some 88`s.. so that is the reason we now wonder..DO WE PAINT THE "X" on our 1:1 scale Junkers 88 A1 ???

actually I would think it would be more common on the tail than the fuselage. yes I would paint it on, so we assume then the yellow faded to the white due to age and air quality problems GF ? very good

now this bears up the question what Ju 88 units had this applied to their A/C ?

it was not the yellow that had fainted to white..as it was two layers.. the white peeled of first and then the clear yellow X came to sight..then that started to peel of also..i have påaintsamples from both layers but as you see on our Ju 88 its painted on the fuselage just above the wing..and in the BoB 1940 movie its on the tail ..so we WILL repaint it on the fuselage but not sure about the tail yet.. might go for it.. comments are welcome..my gutfeeling says yes..but we got to take into account that this is the most original Ju 88 surviving regarding all little details..and its a legacy for the future so i dont want to go wrong..

we know that this was applied to KG 30 as our Ju 88 was operating for KG 30

and most likely this was issued on all Ju 88`s that got the secret system installed

here is two picture sof the Ju 88 sinking..one can see that the germans has in a hurry painted over the X 8 as this was a secret ) and one can actually see how the paint has run down the fuselage.. this was probably done so that it would not be taken pictures of the "symbol"

the symbol is located just in front of the U4 code and after the TK code on the left side
why this Ju 88 a1 does not have painted on the 4D code of KG 30 is that is was send straight from Erganzungs- Kampfgruppe 4 (Erg.K.Gr.4), to Norway to strenghten KG 30 and it was no time to paint it..we know they had started but never got there before it was lost

Guttorm

Does this mean that these 111's from KG-100 had the system as well then?

yes some of the heinkels also got this system

How do you build this into the cockpit then, how can/could you see that it was fitted with system there....add a box or, also was there any antennas added?

you dont need to..

as two german prisonors said ( when they thought the english wasent lisening ) their cells was bugged..

"they will never find it "

and they almost dident

its inside the EBI 1 and EBI 2 boxses..the boxses had a modified strong reciver and sender..it was just by pure luck that the english found the secret system as a radioexpert by luck found out that the EBI and " was much stronger that what needed to be and that they could recive laningsignals from germany even over england"..so the system was hidden in the ordinary radio FuG 10 system. this secret system worked by two beams beeing sendt from germany or france--or wherevere they put up the senders..from two different locations..and where the beams meet ( X )
the target was located and bombs could be dropped

the location of the EBI 1 and 2 on the Ju 88 is behind the radiowall hidden inside the two top boxses..

More great stuff, Mr.G!
As for the 'X' symbol for X-Gerat, it's a difficult one, and some of the decision would depend on the period in the aircraft's life that you wish to ultimately display it. If, for instance, you wish to display the restored aircraft as it was during the BoB, and the original fuselage 'X' was then yellow, then that is the colour ir should be. You will know more, but I suspect that the colour change was made after moving to Norway, i.e. after the BoB.
As for the tail 'X', if you have evidence that it was present, then yes, it should be re-painted. But, would the aircraft carry TWO 'X' symbols?
It may be that, during the BoB, the tail was the 'standard' place to put the 'X', and that it moved later, which I know contradicts what I have said above. As there is definite proof of the 'X' being on the fuselage, then obviously this should be re-painted, as for the tail, as Erich said, probably yes, but it will be down to your 'gut' feeling, or further research/evidence.
In conclusion, I would think that, a restored Authentic JU88A1, with a combat history, would not look out of place with both markings, and there is evidence of other matkings, such as 'group leader' bars, being duplicated on wings and tail on He111's.
Jan, re the best kit in 1/48th for your JU88A1/A5 conversion. I would guess that those available, Revell/Dragon, MIGHT be best, but I've only seen photos. The old Hobbycraft one that I used is accurate in general outline, the thing that lets it down is the 'heavy' appearance of the transparencies. However, you would need to mould at least a new rear canopy top section, and I still have the mould I made for mine. Also, the engine nacelles need modifying, which is fairly simple with a bit of surgery and 'Milliput' rather than going to the expense of a convesion kit. For the A1, the outer wing needs re-shaping and shortening, and this is shown on the plans I have. The rest I'm sure you can glean from all the info Mr.G has posted, or has on his web-site. If you need plans or other stuff, let me know.
Terry.

hi Terry
glad you liked the input

i agree with you here regarding the X.. this X is 100% on the fuselage but we dont know for sure that it was on the tail ( that is why we have not painted it on the complete restored tail ) i see one small misunderstanding here..this Ju 88 A1 never took part i BoB. the A5 we salvaged back in 2000 did.. not the A1..this A1 took part in the invasion of norway !! before the BoB..and was lost during the norvegian campaign.
The A5 we salvaged went to germany two years ago.. faith uncertain !! as it was a saltwater wreck.. this A1 is freswater !! most likely we will paint the X in white as it was when salvaged ( but first yellow..then white,,as we will paint this aircraft in the way it was painted originally.. so if we display it with a yellow X for a while its no problem..it can be painted white later on !! )
and as you say they might have moved the location of the X later ( BoB ) and it also might be on both.. need more research. but as you say and i did also up here.. they did often duplicate some markings on the fuselage on the tail..but that will a topic for research and discussion !!

and terry..you know what this means..you can booze up your BoB models with a nice little X on the vertical ( white ) and make your kit more special ))

Thanks, G! More info for my files!
Sorry, I misunderstood the time period on the A1, probably because of brain overload due to all the info you've posted! As that is the case, then, and I'm only making an eductaed GUESS, I don't think the 'X' would have been on the tail at the time of the aircraft's Norwegian service, that is, before the BoB.
But, even if you place the 'X' in both positions, it won't be 'wrong', as no one else knows, and it could have been displayed so!
Going off now, as I've been trying to get some work done on my Gustav model, without much luck, for the past three hours or so!
Cheers,
Terry.

hehe

overload..happens easily in here i have understood,same happenes with me.
and its easy to get confused as i knida just pour is ome from thsi and that regarding the Ju 88`s and the He 111..will try to be more consist !!

get that G model going )) i am going to bed soon..tired.. ))

looking forward to see pics of that G model !!!

any models of 88 going anyone ?

Hello Gf........looking forevard to se the 1:32 ju88 on this site in desember. think we will see a lot of nice model pict here.....(standing ready with my air brush and glue) good night everyone.
KE

if anybody want to study the decalset for the Ju 88 a1 1:32 just look at my website and click on the revelllogo..i have put a hig def picture of it there

GF
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