Russian Supermarines conducted a month long operation in and around UK Waters.The UK's response seems weak in my opinion but I have no military background so how would the USA respond to incursions of this nature?
Russian Submarine Operation UK.
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Also in Dutch waters. We have been monitoring them. Not sure if it's weak. Should they threaten them or even bomb them?
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It's just the fact that the Russians were operating over Cables and Pipelines for over a month. Of course there UK should not bomb them but I'm wondering if something more aggressive could have been done. I also read that a Russian shadow fleet tanker was escorted by a Russian Warship through the English Channel.Like I said I have no Military background so if I'm nieve or talking rubbish I have no problem with being corrected.
This is just a return to the Cold War days with both sides playing cat & mouse with each other. Both sides use their subs to spy on each other and attempt to monitor and / or prevent the other side getting too close to their own bases / infrastructure. It all went on in great secrecy by all sides. Every once in a while incidents happened to bring it to light, like a Soviet Whiskey class sub grounding on the Swedish coast.
en.wikipedia.org
After a long period of quiet following the fall of the Berlin Wall in 1989, the Russians have stepped up their activity again under, on and over the sea. So long as the activity is in or over international waters and no physical damage is being done, "monitoring" is about all that can be done. Then would come diplomatic protests etc.
Back in the 1970s & 1980s the US ran a successful operation to tap Soviet underwater communication cables in various parts of the world.
en.wikipedia.org
Seems I'm getting too old if I can remember all this stuff. The question is why is such a public fuss being made this time around? Our own "propaganda" to justify a much needed increase in Defence spending? Once you get to the stage of dropping bombs things are way out of control and where do they escalate from there? That is why we need to rely on the cool headed professionalism of our armed forces to deal with these matters.
It is worth taking a look at the 1963 Cold War movie "The Bedford Incident" as an example of how matters can quickly escalate in times of heightened tensions leading to mistakes and, in this fictional case, to a nuclear WW3.
en.wikipedia.org
Soviet submarine S-363 - Wikipedia
After a long period of quiet following the fall of the Berlin Wall in 1989, the Russians have stepped up their activity again under, on and over the sea. So long as the activity is in or over international waters and no physical damage is being done, "monitoring" is about all that can be done. Then would come diplomatic protests etc.
Back in the 1970s & 1980s the US ran a successful operation to tap Soviet underwater communication cables in various parts of the world.
Operation Ivy Bells - Wikipedia
Seems I'm getting too old if I can remember all this stuff. The question is why is such a public fuss being made this time around? Our own "propaganda" to justify a much needed increase in Defence spending? Once you get to the stage of dropping bombs things are way out of control and where do they escalate from there? That is why we need to rely on the cool headed professionalism of our armed forces to deal with these matters.
It is worth taking a look at the 1963 Cold War movie "The Bedford Incident" as an example of how matters can quickly escalate in times of heightened tensions leading to mistakes and, in this fictional case, to a nuclear WW3.
The Bedford Incident - Wikipedia
special ed
1st Lieutenant
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- May 13, 2018
A fellow employee had been part of a P-3 crew in the USN when the plane first entered service. On patrols, it was a practice to stay on a USSR sub if one were detected. Ivan would try to get away and the USN would relay an aircraft to relieve the plane on the sub. The idea was to eventually catch the sub surfacing to recharge, replenish or what ever. When the Ivan would surface, if he didn't get away, the sub crew would pour onto deck, line up in best uniform, while P-3 made a low flyby taking pictures.
We must also remember that in International Law when it comes to certain waterways, like the Straits of Dover / Pas de Calais, there are rights of free passage for international shipping, warships etc, despite the fact that geographically they may be in, or claimed to be in a particular state's territorial waters.
So there is nothing, legally, to prevent Russian warships passing through the English Channel. We ourselves, and other nations, have been quick to claim such rights in places like the Black Sea and the Taiwan Strait over recent years.
www.navylookout.com
en.wikipedia.org
www.bbc.co.uk
www.bbc.co.uk
www.navylookout.com
The worrying thing in the last year has been US actions to intercept and board sanctioned tankers in international waters and attacking and sinking small vessels claimed to be drug runners and killing the crews without any seeming attempt to capture them. Many of these actions are seen in some quarters as being in breach of International Law. And now we have the current war in the Middle East.
I don't want to become political, but the last five years or so have seen a massive shift in the various international "understandings" and "norms" that had existed since the end of WW2, with plenty of double standards applied on all sides.
So there is nothing, legally, to prevent Russian warships passing through the English Channel. We ourselves, and other nations, have been quick to claim such rights in places like the Black Sea and the Taiwan Strait over recent years.
HMS Duncan buzzed by 17 Russian jets in the Black Sea - Navy Lookout
The first part of the Channel 5 documentary "Warship Life at Sea" has just been broadcast and documents HMS Duncan leading a NATO deployment to the Black Sea in the first half of 2018. There have been several TV documentaries showing life on board RN warships made in the last few years but the...
www.navylookout.com
2021 Black Sea incident - Wikipedia
HMS Defender: Russian jets and ships shadow British warship
More than 20 jets and two coastguard ships shadow HMS Defender as it sails near Crimea's coast.
www.bbc.co.uk
China criticises UK warship HMS Spey sailing in Taiwan Strait
China said the HMS Spey's transit "undermines peace and stability" in the region.
www.bbc.co.uk
Royal Navy frigate HMS Richmond conducts transit of the Taiwan Strait - Navy Lookout
On 12 September, HMS Richmond sailed through international waters that separate China and Taiwan in company with the Arleigh Burke-class destroyer USS Higgins. China responded by dispatching air and naval assets to monitor the passage and predictably accused the two nations of "trouble-making...
www.navylookout.com
The worrying thing in the last year has been US actions to intercept and board sanctioned tankers in international waters and attacking and sinking small vessels claimed to be drug runners and killing the crews without any seeming attempt to capture them. Many of these actions are seen in some quarters as being in breach of International Law. And now we have the current war in the Middle East.
I don't want to become political, but the last five years or so have seen a massive shift in the various international "understandings" and "norms" that had existed since the end of WW2, with plenty of double standards applied on all sides.
P-3 arrived in front line service in Aug 1962.
Such action could be extremely dangerous. At the height of the Cuban Missile Crisis in Oct 1962 such a "hunt to exhaustion" kept the B-59 down and out of communication with its HQ for so long that the crew were on the verge of firing a nuclear tipped torpedo (that the USN didnt know the Soviets had!). Only because one of the three officers required to agree the launch refused to do so was the nuclear Armageddon of a WW3 avoided.
Soviet submarine B-59 - Wikipedia
Once the Soviet Navy deployed nuclear boats able to stay down almost indefinitely, rather than the diesel-electric types, such opportunities became much rarer.
Soviet aircraft in NATO airspace was an almost daily occurrence during the Cold War, with RAF Phantoms and then Tornados from Leuchars in Scotland taking off In the 1970s & 1980s to intercept and take over from other shadowing aircraft from other NATO partners. Something we never heard about because it was so common. Annual airshows were even disrupted as the Quick Reaction Alert flight took off or landed. Now such interceptions make headline news. Changed days.
There are photos about of Soviet aircrew cheerily waving at RAF crews formating on them. All very professional.
Of course it could all go wrong. There were many instances of US reconnaissance aircraft being shot down either around or over Soviet territory, the U-2 of Gary Powers being the most famous. And accidents could happen if aircraft got too close to each other. This one involved China in 2001.
Monitoring all this activity helps reduce the risk of "unknown unknowns".For those that don't recall Donald Rumsfeld's comments
There are unknown unknowns - Wikipedia
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