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How do you figure?The tempest/typhoon could have been available much earlier with the Griffon engine.
Hmmm hoist by my own petard!How do you figure?
That was the video that triggered this off. How could a company consider such an un simple engine?I am Nomad. I am perfect.
Looking at a lot of documentaries on YouTube, it seems very much that Napier worked way outside of what was possible. Whereas Rolls-Royce were able to purpose themselves to make engines that were in the realms of technology.
The tempest/typhoon could have been available much earlier with the Griffon engine. It seemed that Napier enjoyed the technological challenges of the H24 engine without considering the practicalities. Surely the air ministry should have put the stop to this nonsense and just got Napier workers working on something that we know would work such as the Griffon.
It seems like there were two top companies for the RAF: Rolls-Royce and Avro who got things done. Surely the weaker performers should have been subordinated to them?
Post war they went mad too with the Nomad!
Hmmm hoist by my own petard!
The RR alternative for the Tempest was the Vulture now I find.
Apologies.
That was the video that triggered this off. How could a company consider such an un simple engine?
Steeerrr...rrriiillllll...iizzzzzeee........Must you sterilize? or exterminate?
I guess I didn't factor long development time into my answer. Merlin thus not forced into production= less visible ironing out of bugs?With some of these engines it was a question of which engine was promising what (HP or HP at Altitude) when (year-month).
The Griffon and Sabre were both 36.7liter engines.
The Griffon was smaller/lighter but it was limited to 2750rpm. (or RR didn't push it).
The Sabre was larger/heavier and they tried for 3850rpm (or higher?) so with everything being equal () the Sabre should make 40% more power. Assuming the the same fuel and so on. In 1938 the fuel was 87 octane with 100 octane (NOT 100/130) coming in a few years (maybe 1939, maybe 1940???)
Now it turned out that the Sabre, in addition to some of it's well known problems, didn't handle high boost very well, the sleeve valves distorted/broke and the higher boost with better fuel made up some of the difference power between the two engines. But this wasn't until 1942-43.
This is sort of the cliff notes version.
Trying to build(design even on paper) a Typhoon in 1937-38 with Griffon engine using 87 octane fuel would not have come close to giving the performance desired.
Apparently vulture version ofTempestTyphoon promising but too unreliable. So I admit I am applying double standards to RR and Napier.
In retrospect the mistake was maybe they tried too much. Both the Vulture and the Sabre were big leaps compared to the Merlin, which cost them in terms of being behind schedule and having all kinds of exotic reliability problems. Had the Air Ministry said that as a follow-up to the Merlin they wanted a boring poppet valve V-12 with some 30% more power, and then have the next generation fighter designed around that engine, maybe they could have had something deployed and somewhat reliable by the time the FW 190 showed up.Trying to build(design even on paper) a Typhoon in 1937-38 with Griffon engine using 87 octane fuel would not have come close to giving the performance desired.
What does RR says?Of course, with highly respected people like Ricardo and Fedden saying the future is sleeve valves, not sure the Ministry could, at the time, go against that and require poppet valves.
RR was playing with a sleeve valve engine in the mid-late 30s.What does RR says?
Some of this is marketing.In retrospect the mistake was maybe they tried too much. Both the Vulture and the Sabre were big leaps compared to the Merlin, which cost them in terms of being behind schedule and having all kinds of exotic reliability problems. Had the Air Ministry said that as a follow-up to the Merlin they wanted a boring poppet valve V-12 with some 30% more power, and then have the next generation fighter designed around that engine, maybe they could have had something deployed and somewhat reliable by the time the FW 190 showed up.
And yes, that plane would have been smaller than the Typhoon. And sure, have Napier design and build that engine, if the ministry is concerned about avoiding a RR monopoly.
Of course, with highly respected people like Ricardo and Fedden saying the future is sleeve valves, not sure the Ministry could, at the time, go against that and require poppet valves.