Should The Allies Have Bypassed Italy?

[parsifal]

just for info
French fighter unit in MTO
GC 1/4 P-39
GC 1/5 P-39
GC 2/3 D 520
GC 2/5 P-40
GC 2/9 D 520
GC 3/6 P-39
GC 2/7 Spit V
GC 1/3 Spit V&IX
GC 1/7 Spit V (activè from 16th september)
GC 1/2 D 520

According to the list i posted (Molony et al) the following FF units were under MAC control

8 Groupement
1/11 (15 LEO45), II/23 (15 LEO45), 1/25 (15 LEO45)

2689th HQ
41st (12 Walruses), I/3 (20 spit VC as of 8/9/43), II/7 (20 spit VC), I/4 (25 P-39), I/5 (25 P-39), III/6 (25 P-39), II/5 (25 P-40). Thje D 520 equipped units were not under command, but you have not listed the bomber or seaplane units

Molony (et al) has the following SAAF units included in their inventory (I am almost certain that Molony has mistakenly included RAAF units as SAAF sqns, since the squadron and Gp numbers match)

No 3 Wing SAAF
No 12, 24 and 21 Sqns (48 Bostons and 24 Baltimores)

Attached to DAF
60 (P-38/Mosq),

No 7 Wing (RAF)
2, 4 (32 Spit Vc/IX)

No 239 Wing (RAF)
No 1, 40 (32 Spit V/VIII)

No 210 Wing (RAF)
No 3 (16 Hurr IIC)

No 212 Wing (RAF)
No 7, 80, 41 (32 Spit Vc, 16 Hurri IIB)

No 201 Wing (RAF)
No 15 (24 Baltimores) , 454, 459 (32 Hudson)

No 238 Wing (RAF)
No 16 (24 Beaforts)


I wanted to cross check the numbers of RAF squadrons with my other source (Ellis. Ellis's list is for December so there are bound to be slight differences. However the two sources are remarkably similar, which sugests both are accurate.

Ellis lists a total of 100 RAF squadrons (49 fighter) in the MTO as at December. molony lists 102 (52 fighter) . I think however Ellis does not include those units protecting Iran, East africa and the similar.

 

[drgondog]

Check best parsifal count there were errors also for the british (example there were none Kittyhawk unit), and show on paper strenght of unit.
My analogy is right but it is not for calculating the strenght of FG.

But you insisted on linking your 'calculations' to operational fighter group inventory - therefore your analogy was and is incorrect

Sure i believe to Statistical Digest and not your strange idea that a theater non need reserves.

In no way did I state that a Theatre did not 'need' reserves. When you could not account for the high number of in theatre aircraft being allocated to 7 (or 9) P-47 Fighter Groups, I demonstrated that the 'reserve' level was 50%+ of the actual inventory assigned to each (and collectively) ETO P-47 Group.

I then acknowledged that a significant number Could be inventory... but you can not extract and believeable number by citing the Statistical Digest data for October 31, 1943.

Where is the source or detail to substantiate some 500 to 350 'reserve P-47s' in England (depending on whether your 'FG count is correct - or mine is)?

Any RAF or FF units in your roll up? Nope. Was UK a staging point to fly or transport P-47s to the MTO? Nope. So given the data where do you think all those P-47s were hiding?

 

[Vincenzo]

Parsifal i've not confirmation for a 80th Squadron in SAAF. i've indicated only fighter unit (the discussion was on Spitfire dominance as allied fighter).
RAF squadron F/FB
6th Hurri IV
32nd Spit V&IX
33rd Hurri II
43rd Spit V&IX
72nd Sp V&IX
73rd Spit V
74th Spit V
80th Spit V&IX
81st Spit V&IX
87th Hurri II Spit V
92nd Sp V&VIII
93rd Sp V&IX
94th Hurri II Spit V
111th Spit V&IX
112th Kitty III
123rd Hurri II Spit V&IX
126th Spit V&IX
127th Hurri II Spit V
134th Hurri II
145th Sp V&VIII&IX
154th Sp V&IX
185th Sp V&IX
208th Hurri II
213th Hurri II
225th Spit V
229th Spit V
232nd Spit V&IX
237th Hurri II
238th Spit V
241st Hurri II
242nd Spit V&IX
243rd Spit V&IX
249th Spit V&IX
250th Kitty III
253rd Spit V&IX
260th Kitty III
274th Hurri II
335th Hurri II
336th Hurri II
417th Hurri II Spit V&VIII
450th Kitty III
451st Hurri II Spit V
601st Spit V&VIII
1435th Spit V&IX
46th Beaufighter
89th Beaufighter
152nd Beaufighter
219th Beaufighter
252nd Beaufighter
255th Beaufighter
600th Beaufighter
603rd Beaufighter
23rd Mosquito
256th (det) Mosquito

44 SE Squadron 24 with Spit, 10 with Hurri, 4 with Kitty and 6 with Hurri&Spit
9+1det TE Squadron 8 with Beaufighter, 1+1det with Mosquito (this are not all NF unit)