Soviet fighter red star variations

[SirFrancis]

Hey guys,

Does anyone have info on policy behind the variations in the star styles? I have read somewhere that solid red was early war, followed by white border mid war and then red border on white border (victory star) late war. Is there more specific dates on these or were they all used throughout etc.?
There are other variations as listed below.

Variations include:
Solid red
Black border
White border
Yellow border
'Victory star' - red border around the white border (Late war from when?)
Two tone Kremlin Star
Red star inside a white circle

'Victory Star'

White border & white circle

Solid red & black border

Kremlin Star

Yellow Border

 

[Wurger]

Actually the pre-war and the early stage of the WW2 "Red Star" had three variants. The first, basic one was of the solid red colour without any outline. The second one was of the solid red but with the black thin outline and the third variant was the solid red with the thin black outline and a black painted thin ring inside of the star. The kind of the marking was used from 1927 to 1940/1941 and could be found on planes painted silver , green and the black-green camo. From 1940/1941 to 1943 the star of the solid red without or with the thin black outline was only used mostly. The white thin outline happend occasionally and was the factory variation used from 1941 to the 1943 by a few factories. In the mid of 1943 ( as memo serves in the August ) when the grey camo scheme was introduced, the solid red "Star" got the 5cm thick white outline with the 1cm thick red outer border and became the 'Victory star' used until the end of the war and after. It is said that the white outline also could be of the yellow but together with the Kremlin star type are just the local variations only and had nothing in common with the official regulations. What is more there is a doubt whether the yellow was used at all. The 'Victory star' became the standard soviet national marking after the war.

The VVS "Red star" with the white disc was painted by the USA manufacturers on the West aircraft sent to Russia. IIRC the white disks weren't welcome by Soviets and often were over or re ... painted them with green or other colours.

Also a note .. the single thick white outline without the thin red border of the red star is a result of the incorrect interpretation of the B&W pictures being of not always too great quality. In fact, the red thin border was there. But because of a couple of reasons like the light conditions, tone of the background or the angle the image was taken with ... remains unnoticed.

 

[SirFrancis]

Actually the pre-war and the early stage of the WW2 "Red Star" had three variants. The first, basic one was of the solid red colour without any outline. The second one was of the solid red but with the black thin outline and the third variant was the solid red with the thin black outline and a black painted thin ring inside of the star. The kind of the marking was used from 1927 to 1940/1941 and could be found on planes painted silver , green and the black-green camo. From 1940/1941 to 1943 the star of the solid red without or with the thin black outline was only used mostly. The white thin outline happend occasionally and was the factory variation used from 1941 to the 1943 by a few factories. In the mid of 1943 ( as memo serves in the August ) when the grey camo scheme was introduced, the solid red "Star" got the 5cm thick white outline with the 1cm thick red outer border and became the 'Victory star' used until the end of the war and after. It is said that the white outline also could be of the yellow but together with the Kremlin star type are just the local variations only and had nothing in common with the official regulations. What is more there is a doubt whether the yellow was used at all. The 'Victory star' became the standard soviet national marking after the war.

The VVS "Red star" with the white disc was painted by the USA manufacturers on the West aircraft sent to Russia. IIRC the white disks weren't welcome by Soviets and often were over or re ... painted them with green or other colours.

Also a note .. the single thick white outline without the thin red border of the red star is a result of the incorrect interpretation of the B&W pictures being of not always too great quality. In fact, the red thin border was there. But because of a couple of reasons like the light conditions, tone of the background or the angle the image was taken with ... remains unnoticed.

Ahh interesting, I did not know the 'white border' star was actually a Victory star with poor contrast lol.... thanks Wojtek.

 

[Wurger]

My pleasure.

Because you have asked about the policy behind the variations in the star styles .. IMHO there was one reason for that only. Always to make the national marking dominant.

 

[SirFrancis]

My pleasure.

Because you have asked about the policy behind the variations in the star styles .. IMHO there was one reason for that only. Always to make the national marking dominant.

I noticed one thing that was specific to Soviet fighters is that they didn't have the national markings on the upper side of wings. I wonder why this was when all other nations did.

 

[Wurger]

I noticed one thing that was specific to Soviet fighters is that they didn't have the national markings on the upper side of wings. I wonder why this was when all other nations did.

The painting of the Red Star markings on the upper wing surfaces was kept since the October Revolution although the shapes and sizes of the marking were quite random at that time. On 26 July 1927 the VVS RKKA introduced more unified rules of applying and one shape of the Red Star marking. The Red Star was said to be applied on wing tops and undersides. If the plane was a biplane the red stars were applied on the top wing upper surface and on the bottom wing underside only.
In the summer of the 1940 after trials for masking and camouflage colours for the russian aircraft it was recommended to remove the red stars from the wing tops. This recommendation was added to the new temporary VVS RKKA rules for camouflage and introduced on all planes made beginning the second half of the 1941. The way of applying of the red star markings was followed until the end of WW2.

 

[SirFrancis]

The painting of the Red Star markings on the upper wing surfaces was kept since the October Revolution although the shapes and sizes of the marking were quite random at that time. On 26 July 1927 the VVS RKKA introduced more unified rules of applying and one shape of the Red Star marking. The Red Star was said to be applied on wing tops and undersides. If the plane was a biplane the red stars were applied on the top wing upper surface and on the bottom wing underside only.
In the summer of the 1940 after trials for masking and camouflage colours for the russian aircraft it was recommended to remove the red stars from the wing tops. This recommendation was added to the new temporary VVS RKKA rules for camouflage and introduced on all planes made beginning the second half of the 1941. The way of applying of the red star markings was followed until the end of WW2.

I wonder why they went this way when no other nation did? I read somewhere that the US began only applying the star to one wing on both upper and lower surface to confuse enemy aiming. Apparently it was believed that pilots could snap aim more rapidly at the centre vitals of an aircraft by aiming between the wing markings. So if there was only one 'star' it might hinder that ability however slightly. Not sure how true this however.

 

[Wurger]

The same was said about the Polish AF chequer. If you have a look at the Polish planes used in 1939 you may noticed the nonsymmetric applying of the Polish national marking almost on all Polish aircraft.

Regarding the soviet red star ... I believe it was because of the getting of a kind of a compromise between the year seasons and the colours used for the camo.The red star appeared to be well noticed on the solid green background or the green/black painted surfaces. What is more while the winter camo was in use the red markings were seen greatly. The tone of the red colour should be taken into consideration as well. Contrary to the colour tones used by the Western countries the Russian one was guite bright and gloss mostly. So no wonder the VVS decided to remove them from top surfaces.

Here a couple od shots showing the tops of wings with the red star and without. Although the shots aren't of the greatest qualirty, please notice how nice these are seen if applied.

the source: experimental camouflages 1940-41

 

[SirFrancis]

The same was said about the Polish AF chequer. If you have a look at the Polish planes used in 1939 you may noticed the nonsymmetric applying of the Polish national marking almost on all Polish aircraft.

Regarding the soviet red star ... I believe it was because of the getting of a kind of a compromise between the year seasons and the colours used for the camo.The red star appeared to be well noticed on the solid green background or the green/black painted surfaces. What is more while the winter camo was in use the red markings were seen greatly. The tone of the red colour should be taken into consideration as well. Contrary to the colour tones used by the Western countries the Russian one was guite bright and gloss mostly. So no wonder the VVS decided to remove them from top surfaces.

Here a couple od shots showing the tops of wings with the red star and without. Although the shots aren't of the greatest qualirty, please notice how nice these are seen if applied.

View attachment 796586
the source: experimental camouflages 1940-41

I noticed the top right aircraft has only one star on port wing. Another variation!

 

[Wurger]

I noticed the top right aircraft has only one star on port wing. Another variation!

Actually not ... the I-16 is said to be tested the sand+yellow-green+dark brown colour camo set . So either the camo spot on the starboard wing is of the sand or the yellow-green colour. In the case the red star wouldn't be noticed. Certainly it can't be excluded they just could overpaint the marking there.

 

[Massimo Tessitori]

Hi all,
you can find quick explanations on the painting and marking of soviet planes on the page colors

More detailed pages are accessible from
colors

The I-16s of the photos above are of 1940 and have temporarily painted washable camouflages, scarcely representative of the common use in VVS.

Regards
Massimo

 

[SuperAereo]

In some cases silver paint was used instead of white for the "victory stars". This is clearly visible on a colour photo of a Yak-9 DD stationed in Bari (Italy) in 1944.

 

[SirFrancis]

In some cases silver paint was used instead of white for the "victory stars". This is clearly visible on a colour photo of a Yak-9 DD stationed in Bari (Italy) in 1944.

Can I ask a silly question? What was a Yak 9 doing in Italy?

 

[Wurger]

Can I ask a silly question? What was a Yak 9 doing in Italy?

In August 1944 a formation of the Yak-9DD version was transferred to Bari to help Yugoslav partisans against the Germans in the Balkans. A few of the twelve Soviet Yak-9DD fighters that composed the Special Purpose Air Group was at the US 97th Bomb Group base at Amendola, near Foggia, Southern Italy to escort US bombers on a raid against Rumania. As part of the 236 Fighter Aviation Division these fighters transferred next to Soten-Orlik, Yugoslavia, from where they flew ground-attack missions in support of Tito's partisans. According to another version, there are the Yak-9D at the airfield in Poltava.

the pic source: Yak-9 Aircraft in Bari Italy

 

[Wurger]

BTW these two shots below and the two above may suggest the silver outline for the fusealge star.

the source: Yakovlev Yak-9

 

[bf109xxl]

In the 1930s, the stars had a black border. According to the instruction from June 20, 1941 the stars had no border, but there is no mention of the cancellation of the black border. Therefore, some factories painted stars without border (No. 292), and others - with border (No. 153). According to the order from September 03, 1943 the stars had to have two borders - white (width 5 cm) and red (1 cm), but in combat units the white border was applied even before this order.
In combat units white paint could be replaced by yellow or aluminum paint.
The UT-2 had stars with black border (the order from August 15, 1944).
Victory stars were standardized by the order from September 07, 1942: size 15 cm, border width 1 cm, aluminum paint.
Source:

 

[SirFrancis]

BTW these two shots below and the two above may suggest the silver outline for the fusealge star.

View attachment 797049
View attachment 797048
the source: Yakovlev Yak-9

Well I've learned something new today.... cool, had no idea the Soviet air force ventured that far. ...... and yes definitely silver

 

[Wurger]