Stealing a Fw-190

[The Basket]

When the Focke Wulf Fw 190 was first appearing and giving the Spit V what for... The British had the scheme of stealing a 190 from a German base.

So an obviously experienced pilot would have been sent in to fly a 190 off to Blighty.

Apart from the obvious dangers of been on a fully active enemy airfield, could a pilot simply get in a 190 and fly it away without any kind of instruction? Without knowing where all the taps are?

 

[swampyankee]

When the Focke Wulf Fw 190 was first appearing and giving the Spit V what for... The British had the scheme of stealing a 190 from a German base.

So an obviously experienced pilot would have been sent in to fly a 190 off to Blighty.

Apart from the obvious dangers of been on a fully active enemy airfield, could a pilot simply get in a 190 and fly it away without any kind of instruction? Without knowing where all the taps are?

Bob Hoover did it.

 

[Snautzer01]

Must have been a strong man. Just watched the start up of de D-13. Cranking up the inertia starter seems to be a 2 man job.

 

[nuuumannn]

When the Focke Wulf Fw 190 was first appearing and giving the Spit V what for... The British had the scheme of stealing a 190 from a German base.

Spitfire test pilot Jeffrey Quill was the man who was going to be the pilot. This was known as Operation Air Thief. The following is text from an article I had published in a local aviation magazine some years ago:

"A more plausible idea was proposed by Vickers Supermarine Chief Test Pilot Jeffrey Quill and a Commando pal of his, Capt Philip Pinkney. Inspired by the success of Operation Biting, the commando raid on the Bruneval German radar site in February 1942, where a British scientist dismantled Würzburg radar components and returned them to Britain by submarine, Operation Air Thief would have seen Quill steal an Fw 190 from a German airfield and fly it back, whilst Pinkney distracted the Germans. A letter to Pinkney's commanding officer of No.12 Commando dated 23 June 1942 detailed the proposal, which was to be carried out over five days and required; "One MGB (motor gunboat) equipped with DF [direction-finding radio] apparatus, to carry a folbot [collapsible canoe] to within 2 miles of the coast of France."

On the night of Day One; "...the MGB carrying the officers and folbot, will leave England after dark and proceed at best speed to within 2 miles of the French coast off a selected beach." After waiting for dusk on the second day; "the officers will move inland until they are within observation range of a fighter aerodrome." which on the third day they would; "...keep the aerodrome under observation and plan the attack for the start of nautical twilight on D4." That night however; "...the officers will penetrate the aerodrome defences by stealth and will conceal themselves as near as possible to a selected Focke Wulf aircraft."

On the fourth day; "...when the aircraft are warmed up by the ground mechanics, the two officers will take the first opportunity to shoot the ground mechanics of the selected plane as soon as it has been started up. The pilot officer will take off in the machine and return to England. The commando officer will first ensure the safe departure of the aircraft and will then withdraw to a previously reconnoitred hideup. Should no opportunity to seize the aircraft have presented itself, the officers will withdraw to a hideup and make another attempt the next morning." The following day would be when Pinkney made his escape.

A paragraph hinting at the dangers of flying a Luftwaffe fighter over British territory was included; "Arrangements must be made with Fighter Command to ensure that the pilot officer is not shot down by our fighters on returning with the captured aircraft. It is suggested that these arrangements should not be dependant upon wireless or on the officers taking distinctive markings or signalling apparatus with them. Possibly Fighter Command could be instructed not to shoot down any enemy Focke Wulf 190 appearing over the coast during specified times on selected days. In addition the undercarriage could be lowered for identification."

Regarding a possible airfield, Pinkney proposed that; "...Abbeville aerodrome might be suitable with a landing made on the Somme Estuary. The Cherbourg peninsula, entailing a cliff-climbing on landing, might give a good chance of making an undiscovered landing, providing a suitable aerodrome is nearby." By the time preparations for Air Thief had begun, the airfield at Cherbourg-Maupertus, home to I/JG 2 and its Fw 190A-2s was to be the most likely target aerodrome."

None of this was needed since the very day Pinkney drafted his proposal, Oblt Arnim Faber inadvertently landed his Fw 190 at RAF Pembry in Wales, gifting the British an intact flyable example of the fighter. Apparently, according to Quill, Pinkney was considerably disappointed the German pilot landed there, denying him the opportunity to do the job!

 

[Admiral Beez]

None of this was needed since the very day Pinkney drafted his proposal, Oblt Arnim Faber inadvertently landed his Fw 190 at RAF Pembry in Wales, gifting the British an intact flyable example of the fighter. Apparently, according to Quill, Pinkney was considerably disappointed the German pilot landed there, denying him the opportunity to do the job!

Make's me wonder if Oblt Arnim Faber was working for a competing British intel agency.

 

[fubar57]

 

[fubar57]

Bob Hoover story, in his own words...Fighter Pilot University :: Bob Hoover Escape in Fw-190

 

[Peter Gunn]

So did Bruce Carr... sort of...

http://www.avia-it.com/act/cera_una_volta/echi/CUV_echi_maggio_2011/Fact_or_Fiction.pdf

 

[pbehn]

Was Quill supposed to figure out how to raise the wheels so he could lower them again?

 

[MIflyer]

Well, "Winkle" Brown did steal one, or sort of. He and his team were looking around newly abandoned Luftwaffe airfields and he wanted to go check out another field. He found a FW-190 that was in good shape and took off in it to go have a look around. And this was while the war was still going on. Of course he had the advantage of already knowing a great deal about the airplane.

That would have been so damn neat! Look around an airfield and just pick out an airplane to fly.

 

[The Basket]

I would assume they would want a Fw-190 in one piece. And flyable.

Winkle Brown would have been perfect for the job as he spoke German and I guess if you are aware of German cockpit design then it would help. If you know what a guage is would help.

The Bruce Carr story is pure boys own story. Pressing buttons to see what it did. Good job it didn't have an ejector seat then!

 

[pbehn]

I would assume they would want a Fw-190 in one piece. And flyable.

Winkle Brown would have been perfect for the job as he spoke German and I guess if you are aware of German cockpit design then it would help. If you know what a guage is would help.

The Bruce Carr story is pure boys own story. Pressing buttons to see what it did. Good job it didn't have an ejector seat then!

Did they have any crashed Fw 190s to know roughly what is what? At the fall of France there were quite a few pilots hopped across the channel in any plane they could start up.

 

[nuuumannn]

This from Quill's book Spitfire A test Pilot's Story (John Murray, 1983), where Pinkney is recounted telling Quill of the plan for the first time;

"'The question is', he said, 'if we got you into the cockpit of an Fw 190, could you fly it without any training and could you get it back to England?' I had already flown a captured Me 109, there were plenty of German aeroplanes in the country, and their cockpit instrumentation and general conventions were thoroughly well known to us, and I was also well accustomed to flying a wide variety of different aircraft types including almost every available modern fighter."

"With reasonable preparation and forethought the Fw 190 would, I concluded, be just another aeroplane. 'The answer to both questions is yes - in principle,' I said, 'provided there is reasonable preparation and planning. But you would have to get me into an aeroplane with the engine already running.' I explained that starting the engines of a fighter aeroplane was not just a matter of pulling the choke and pressing the self-starter button. The chances of getting an unfamiliar aero-engine started up from cold in a hurry were zero."

 

[pinehilljoe]

Was it practice to keep fighters on the tarmac fully fueled? Imagine penetrating the air field and finding the plane you chose was low or dry.

 

[tyrodtom]

I would think aircraft on the tarmac would be ready for flight, plus moisture forms on the inside of a less than full tank, the more of the sides you've got exposed the more moisture you're going to get.

Nothing more useless than a fighter setting on the ready pad, or tarmac, with a empty tank.

 

[The Basket]

That's one issue. Starting an engine from cold. I just can't see how that could be done without knowing what you're doing.

The 190 as a production fighter in service had to have a reasonable level of ease and handling but it's wasn't a gimme.

Perhaps the Eric Carr story is more an example of how easy the Fw-190 was to fly compared to his pilot skills.

I know Winkle Brown flew pretty much all the German main aircraft types and he did say he flew one without any prior knowledge although I forget which one.

Pilots forgetting their location and landing somewhere else is not unusual. At the Battle of the Coral Sea, IJN aircraft tried to land on USN carriers.

 

[Dimlee]

Mikhail Devyatayev has managed to start two engines of He 111 from cold.
English Wiki article is short and does not include some interesting details. While already in the cockpit, Mikhail has found out that accumulators were removed. His comrades managed to find accumulators and bring them on the trolley. Then he could not take off as he did not know how to adjust the trimmers... Turned the airplane around and tried again. Some of his friends panicked, decided that he wanted to give up and threatened to shoot him... Failing to find correct trimmer settings he used brute force to pull the steering wheel as hard as possible and took off at last. He managed to set the trimmers right only later, in the flight.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

Mikhail Devyatayev has managed to start two engines of He 111 from cold.
English Wiki article is short and does not include some interesting details. While already in the cockpit, Mikhail has found out that accumulators were removed. His comrades managed to find accumulators and bring them on the trolley. Then he could not take off as he did not know how to adjust the trimmers... Turned the airplane around and tried again. Some of his friends panicked, decided that he wanted to give up and threatened to shoot him... Failing to find correct trimmer settings he used brute force to pull the steering wheel as hard as possible and took off at last. He managed to set the trimmers right only later, in the flight.

Trimmers?

 

[Peter Gunn]

Was it practice to keep fighters on the tarmac fully fueled? Imagine penetrating the air field and finding the plane you chose was low or dry.

Seems to me I read somewhere that when the Mustangs returned after a mission one of the first things the crew chief did was to fuel the ac to keep moisture from condensing in the tanks. drgondog or one of you other more knowledgeable gents can set me straight on that.

 

[Dimlee]

Trimmers?

I used wrong word probably. Elevator trim control.