T-33 "Shooting Star" - Was it ever officially called that?

[Hoggardhigh]

Hi all,

A lot of sources list the T-33 (two-place trainer version of F-80) as the Shooting Star just like its fighter brethren, but there's a discussion at Wikipedia (specifically, the talk page for the site's T-33 article) which suggests the name Shooting Star was never officially applied to the T-33.

Does anyone here know if that is true or not?

Thanks

 

[MIflyer]

The maintenance manual and the pilot's manual for the F-80 do not refer to the airplane as the Shooting Star. Neither do the pilot's manuals for the F-86D, F-94C, P-51B, P-61 or T-28A, or the maintenance manuals for the F-104A or F-102A, for the example, refer to those airplanes by their popular names. The P-63 pilot's manual does call the airplane the Kingcobra and the Pilot Training Manual for the P-51 does call the airplane the Mustang.

 

[Hoggardhigh]

The maintenance manual and the pilot's manual for the F-80 do not refer to the airplane as the Shooting Star. Neither do the pilot's manuals for the F-86D, F-94C, P-51B, P-61 or T-28A, or the maintenance manuals for the F-104A or F-102A, for the example, refer to those airplanes by their popular names. The P-63 pilot's manual does call the airplane the Kingcobra and the Pilot Training Manual for the P-51 does call the airplane the Mustang.

Are you saying that even the original F-80 wasn't officially named the Shooting Star?

 

[MIflyer]

I am saying that the official Air Force manuals generally do not reflect the popular name. And if it is not there, officially, where is it? The names are largely conferred by the manufacturers but the military does not have to reflect that; it serves no useful purpose and in my 25 years on active duty in the USAF I rarely, if ever, heard anyone call something a Delta Dart, Thunderchief, Talon, or Stratofortress. It was more likely to be a slang name, like White Rocket, Thunderthud, or BUFF.

Now with rockets it was the exact opposite. We called them Thor, Delta, Atlas, Titan rather than PGM-17A or CGM-16E. Of course they had been made into launch vehicles and in some cases no longer had a "number" designation, but in others, like the LV-2D. LV-2F, and SLV-2A they did but we still called them Thor.

 

[YGBSM]

I can't speak to the T-33 specifically, but MIflyer is correct that there are almost always two names for a particular aircraft: the official given name that you'll only ever see in marketing brochures and published literature (manuals, etc.) and the popular name(s) which are the names actually used. Some popular names are used universally and some are used more by military personnel than the general public. Some 'popular' names are also derogatory and are only used by pilots flying other aircraft, etc.

Aircraft variants which keep the same numerical designation usually keep the same names as the base aircraft, although there are exceptions (i.e. F-15E 'Strike Eagle' / 'Mud Hen' vs. F-15C 'Eagle'). An F-16D (the two-seater variant, most often used for training) would still have the official name 'Fighting Falcon' yet would 99.9% of the time be referred to as a 'Viper' just like the 'C' single-seater variant.

When aircraft variants receive new numerical designations, there is some precedent for name changes. The F-5 'Freedom Fighter' vs. the T-38 'Talon' (essentially a two-seater F-5 trainer) comes to mind. If no other name is suggested for a given aircraft variant, I would say it's safe to assume that the original name would technically apply by default - at least as an official name.

 

[Hoggardhigh]

I know it seems kind of unlikely, but does anyone know if the T-33 was ever officially named Shooting Star by Lockheed themselves?

Wouldn't be too surprised if they named the plane as such when it first entered production (as the TF-80C), and later abandoned the name after the aircraft's designation changed to T-33.

 

[Graeme]

(specifically, the talk page for the site's T-33 article)

Talk:Lockheed T-33 - Wikipedia

Had a look there and saw this...

An observation about Janes AWA - in late 1950s/ early 1960s at least, editor JWR Taylor was in the habit of using stuff from manufacturers' press releases and brochures, then failing to correct the 'provisional' info later. In one case, that led to long-perpetuated myths about the names and details of aircraft of 'minor' 're-manufacturers'.PeterWD (talk) 14:14, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

I can confirm that as late as 1960 Jane's was still using this stock photo with the caption containing Shooting Star...

 

[YGBSM]

I was able to find this stock photo from NASA which refers to the T-33 as the Shooting Star:

Source: as shown above


I found some manuals / documents which were simply titled 'T-33', but I was not able to find any documents which referred to the T-33 by another name. That said, if you want a definitive answer, I would try Lockheed Martin's customer support - look under the 'Heritage Aircraft' section contact info (the T-33 is specifically listed):
Customer Support Center

Don't worry about contacting them directly - it's an honest question from a taxpayer, directed to an employee who likely knows the answer on the top of his/her head. It's good PR for them.

EDIT: The Collings Foundation refers to their T-33 as a Shooting Star - Lockheed T-33 Shooting Star - The Collings Foundation
AND Planes of Fame refers to it as such - PLANES OF FAME - _script-page-aircraft

Two good authorities when it comes to warbirds / military aircraft - and both agree.

 

[MIflyer]

From 1945, Mr. Johnson says it is the Shooting Star. As for the T-33A, we called it the "T-Bird." I was TDY to Myrtle Beach AFB in Oct 1975, putting their A-7D's back in the air, when they painted their T-Birds light gray; we all liked the silver/aluminum better.
The F-86F flight manual does call the airplane the Sabre. All the Pilot's Training Manuals I have looked at use the popular name: Mustang; Invader; Skymaster but mostly the regular manuals do not.