T. E. Lawrence

Discussion in 'World War I' started by Soundbreaker Welch?, Sep 28, 2007.

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What did T. E. Lawrence do for the Middle East?

  1. T. E. Lawrence used the right tactics to win, and his legacy in the Middle East has had good effect.

    14.3%
  2. T. E. Lawrence used the wrong tactics to win, and his legacy in the Middle East has had bad effect.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. I have a differant opinion about him all together.

    14.3%
  4. He didn't do too badly, or too well. He really could have done better or worse, either way.

    14.3%
  5. The Middle East is the Middle East. One man like him hasn't changed it that much.

    57.1%
  6. Other:

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. Soundbreaker Welch?

    Soundbreaker Welch? Active Member

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    Just a poll about him. Did he handle the Middle East well? Many of the current goverments there owe some influnce to him. Saddam Hussein eventually took the power away from President Ahmed Hassan al-Bakr, who had taken it from Prime Minister Abd al-Karim Qasim, who took his power from the Faisel Family of Kings, which started with Feisal I, friend of Lawrence.

    So he in a way paved the way for Saddam, since the British goverment putting an Arab ruler, Feisal I, in charge of the Iraq wasn't probably very popular with Iraqis, and created tension between them, and then came the coup by Qasim.

    I don't think he had much to do with Iran.

    But he also caused waves in Syria, first trying to put Feisal in charge of there too, and failing in that, had to let the French control it. Then Hashim al-Atassi took charge for many years, but the French wouldn't admit it a independent nation, and finally the Vichy French took it back again. After WWII the Communists took charge, Then the Bath Party became the power after a coup, (about the same time as Iraq) and has been in power till this day.

    Israel was also made ready for the State of Israel after Turkey lost Jerusalem. The British controlled it then untill they decided the Jew's could do a better job. (maybe)

    There was so much impact from Lawrence, and of course many other people, on the Middle East around WWI and after, I can't list it all.

    Mr. Lawrence differant personalities, not unlike Peter O Toole.
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    Feisal I
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    General Allenby
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  2. Emac44

    Emac44 Active Member

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    In my opinion T E Lawrence was useful to British Imperialistic reasoning in the Middle East. Yes he had some influence in the Middle East. But nothing he had done would change policies that either the French or English had in mind for the Middle East after WW1. To many I believe get the impression of today and refer back to the movie that was released with Peter O'Toole as the main character and this is how Lawrence was as Peter O'Toole protrays him. Lawrence like any other British Army Officer at the period of time was to follow direction of British High Command in defeating the Ottoman Empire in the Middle East. He was given some unusual lastitude in his orders and contacting Arab Leaders and Bedioun Chieftans. But remember many Bedioun Chieftans also were on the side of the Turks for one reason or another and caused some concern to Allied Troops in the Middle East. But this was only briefly touched on in the film and never mentioned again through the film. Did Lawrence make a deal with Arab and Bedoiun Tribes Chieftans on behalf of the British and French? Course he did. How was this achieved? Well like any political reasoning the British and the French via Lawrence in my opinion appealed to the natural greed and aviance of the Arabs which is common in any one if the price is right or there is some reward and share of wealth politics and power is on hand. It was in my opinion Lawrences job to find the right people to except the offering the British and the French were putting on the table after WW1
     
  3. Soundbreaker Welch?

    Soundbreaker Welch? Active Member

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    In Lawrence's book, he talks many times about feeling guilty in deceiving the Arabs, something the film also does portray as much I think. In the movie, he almost seems to believe in the Arab cause more.

    But it's still a great film.
     
  4. trackend

    trackend Active Member

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    The only reason Lawrence liked the middle east was that he was as bent as a nine bob note and he could roger as many arab boys as he liked without going to prison. If you go to Tunisia and Morroco its still going on now loads of gay tourists with a young rent boys in tow.
    His overall effect on the middle east was very minor other than he left a lot of sore bottoms.
     
  5. Emac44

    Emac44 Active Member

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    Yes Track Lawerence was Homosexual or at least had homosexual tendancies. And yes he felt guilty about the betrayal of the Arabs but these Arabs were not forced into the deal they went willingly to betray their own people. I get tired of this bullshit that it was all the fault of Western Nations taking advantage of the Arabs. It reminds me of the Slavery debate where it was only the Whiteman who dealt in slavery over the centuries. Its just another cop out to shift blame. I am not saying the British and French Govts at the time are purely innocent of all charges but they could achieve buggar all if they didn't receive co-operation from greedy Arab Chieftans and Leaders at the time
     
  6. Soundbreaker Welch?

    Soundbreaker Welch? Active Member

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    Yeah, Lawrence, did often blame the arabs to too for not thinking straight. They weren't forced into it, Feisal, like the movie shows, probably knew that he couldn't control everything. But Feisal didn't end up that badly. He became King of Iraq! That's pretty generous.

    But honestly, I've never heard that, T. E. or E.T., was what you would call a promiscuous man. There have been talk of a certain boy he knew, and was friends with. Some say the unknown person he dedicates his book to may have been him. His rape account, some believe was fake. In fact, some belive a lot of his more amazing adventures were fake.

    I think he may of had gay tendencies.

    He may be lying, but in the book he states he is afraid of touching something or being touched in any way. He says he envies the man with the women, or the soldier petting the dog (normally i think), for the close contact they have. But it's possible he's just trying to hold to some perception of himself, without saying what his life actually is.

    It's pretty much speculation.

    I guess in Morroco they aren't as strict about Gays? Because in a place like Iran, I bet if they saw a man with all these boys in tow, they would guess very well. They probably would arrest him, and perhaps kill him.
     
  7. Emac44

    Emac44 Active Member

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    And today Welch is the 90th anniversary of the Australian Lighthorse taking Beersheba 31st October 1917. Same Lighthorse that was instrumental in taking Darmascus and having to withdraw from the city for political reasons so it could be seen that the Arab Legions with T E Lawrence appeared to take and conquer the City and break the hold of the Turks in the Middle East. It was strictly a political stunt and remains as such. The British and Commonwealth Desert Corps were the victors over the Germans and their Allies the Turks. But due to politics the Arab Legions had to be thrown a bone to chew on to be seen in Liberating themselves from Ottoman Rule
     
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