Tech Order/NAVAER/Eng Order/Air Publication binders?

[Sabrejet]

Way back when, I had a source of heavy-duty binders for Tech Orders etc, but I've run out and that source has dried up.

Does anyone know a supplier of the heavy-duty type of TO/NAVAER/EO/AP binder? I'm talking about the type that uses straight tube or straight rod binding, not the snap-shut, lever-arm type.

Any help much appreciated!

 

[MiTasol]

They are like rocking horse droppings so if you find a source please let me know as well

 

[Sabrejet]

I shall do! The lack of replies so far has led me to the realization that it might be a challenge. Appreciative too that I'd got the new ones when I did.

 

[Snautzer01]

Picture?

 

[MiTasol]

There are multiple versions of the same basic binder. Here are photos from two different brands of mine.

 

[Sabrejet]

Yes I have those: the more recent versions have a slide on the front cover portion which engages in slots on the 'pillar' parts of the rear cover part. I'm trying to replace the early versions which have separate front and rear cover parts and often corrode together.

 

[MiTasol]

Yep - Have that sort too and one only USAAC binder which uses a different slide and the thin pins, and a much thinner cover.

Here is one that I have only seen once. A friend has it and it is marked as from a specific P-40K and in poor condition with several different contents written on it in texta. Naturally it does not have the original content (or even P-40 content). The material is a cross between micarta and card. It is held together with Acco clips - hence the slots. It took a lot of cleaning the scanned image.

I note you ask about AP binders. The ones for US equipment were usually TO binders but the ones for British equipment were a much simpler item made of heavy card with fabric hinging and held together with shoe laces running through 2, 3 or 4 holes with various 4 hole patterns. Being British there are multiple "standard" sizes ranging from foolscap (33x21cm) down to 16x21cm - or 12x19cm if you count the pilots notes. When I got it the Cheetah one had a post war metal binding strap as shown but I have redone it with a shoe lace to stop the spread of rust stains.

Some later ones had a formed binder where the fabric wrapped around from front to back. This particular one is a real winner - three different page sizes spread throughout the one manual. 33x21cm, 9.5x22cm and 15x24cm. VERY British

 

[Sabrejet]

Yes the last version is a good option: in many cases, APs were smaller in format as you mention. However the Vol.3 (spares) usually came in a heavier binder. I'll have to take a photo of the type I'm referring to I think.

 

[MiTasol]

Be interested in seeing that - even the thickest I have is identical in material to the first ones I posted photos of. It is in storage but at least 12cm thick.

 

[Snautzer01]

How about;

 

[Sabrejet]

Sadly not: these are more like office binders, and not strong enough to hold 500-plus sheet manuals. The type we're referring to (those at the top) support the left-hand edge of the sheet by compressing in the way of a book. Ring binders don't do this and will result in damaged sheets (ask me how I know)...

 

[Snautzer01]

Lets try again. https://www.amazon.nl/LEUCHTTURM191...0&psc=1&mcid=832891c55f8b34cd8e75832109d6f06f

 

[Sabrejet]

Finally! This is the type I'm looking for ideally (but the various T.O. binders (empty) would be suitable too):

It comprises a spring-loaded section at the spine which 'captures' the slots in the rods which pass through each sheet. The spring-loaded part is released very simply by a tab at the top of the spine. I have maybe two unused of these before I run out. At present rate that will not take long as I already have a few manuals in dodgy bindings.

Help!!!

 

[Snautzer01]

Look a lot like KEBA ergo map A4+ lime-neutral 80mm 4 rings GLX-4533 | bol

 

[Sabrejet]

Note that the type I'm looking for are NOT lever-arm, ring binders: they generally screw together, or in the later version, have a quick-release sliding catch. The type I'm looking for also has substantial, thick hard covers, which the earlier T.O./USAAF/USAF type often do too. They are always of the 'post-type' (rather than ring) binding and thus far I've only ever seen them used for military manuals.

I think I am looking at a commercial supplier rather than a retail type of item. See mine and MiTasol's photos if anyone can help.

 

[MiTasol]

Okay - From his photo above what Sabrejet and I are looking for are two different things. We are both after post binders, not ring binders, but he wants the small pin type and I want the large (3/8 pin) pin type with the TO pin spacing which is not the same as normal retail binders. You can see in his photo the original large TO binder holes.

I also use similar to the sort he seeks for my photocopied manuals. See the next post. These use triple leaf hinges and 4mm thick masonite type material for the covers. The fully closed size is designed to hold 75mm of paper and they expand to hold 115mm of paper.

I think this is what he is looking for. EDIT changed link.

Itoya Springpost Binder – Itoya

itoya.com

What I am looking for on the other hand not only have the larger pins but also have a heavy cover. The front and rear spines of the cover are an L shape steel section - one which slides over the other L shaped steel section behind. The hinges are heavy canvas (or similar material. The covers are just under 1/8 = 3mm masonite like material and the whole thing is covered with leatherette. They can expand about 50% over their nominal size.

I will post photos of one that needs repair as that shows the construction a certain amount.

 

[MiTasol]

Similar to what Sabrejet is looking for

Spine closed and open

Spine extended for fatter content.

Covers opened.

This binder is holding 75mm of content. You can see how thick the cover is and that the corners are steel reinforced to protect the cover from dropping etc.

 

[MiTasol]

TO binders. This one is holding 1.5in = 38mm of content but it can be loaded with up to about 60mm quite safely. The front cover is to the right. As you can see the front spine L section has a substantial rust problem and the deformation of the steel parts shows it has been drop tested far too often.

Front cover. The canvas in the RH photo is the primary hinge and is supported by the external cover.

Back cover. The two pins shown in photo three above are braised or silver soldered on to this L section.

Another style of page clamp. There are at least four that I know of.

 

[MiTasol]

Try here
Trojan Binders - Holden Binders

and/or here

https://www.ldproducts.com/office-supplies-ld/binders-and-accessories/binders/post-binders

Or maybe these - they call them ring binders but they have plastic posts Charles Leonard Vericap Expandable 3-Ring Binder

Another option I have considered is using Chicago screw binding but the large diameter Chicago screws are now getting rare and freaking expensive and I would still need to make the covers.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Knq2Oc-fPwM

 

[Sabrejet]

Thanks muchly! I think some of these might work for me. I'm not looking for the exact AAF type binder: it's the content that's important for me. In the past I've re-punched TO's at the revised spacing if that's what's necessary for loose manuals to be bound and protected.

I have to admit I don't like the L-shaped steel binders for their tendency to rust and then make it VERY difficult to release the sheets if trying to move up to a modern-type binder.

But anyway many thanks - I think I've finally found a selection of options and as I mentioned, I have ordered some threaded posts (thanks for the tip) and in some cases I think I'll be able to use existing covers with new posts and get a better outcome too.