drgondog
Major
Bill, you're using American commercial ammunition thats why. American 8x57mm loads are grossly underloaded, go buy some fullpower European ammunition.
Go to reloadersnest.com, they've got some good handloads you can try.
In strong actions the 8x57mm IS can be safely loaded up to 58 - 60,000 psi MAP, the same or slightly more than the 30.06.
A 154gr bullet in the 7.92x57mm IS will be driven up to 3,000 + fps, and 200gr bullets will do up to 2,700+ fps.
Here's some hot loads you can try (All 56,000 psi MAP or less):
Real Guns - Handload Data - 8x57mm JS Mauser
The Germans themselves back in WWII used uploaded types of 7.92x57mm ammunition, mostly for use in aircraft guns, although snipers "Borrowed" them for an extra 150m of effective range. These rounds were designated "V-patronen", the V stood for Improved and drove the std. 12.8g (198gr) sS projectile to 868 m/s (2850 fps).
154gr 7.92x57mm Turkish Surplus ammunition does around 2,950 fps on average in the Gewehr 98.
As to what I meant with drive force, well thats the amount of force the cartridge can get out of a bullet at different weights - the 8x57mm cartridge has a larger surface area to push on, leading to better acceleration with different bullet weights. The higher the bullet density the lower the acceleration decceleration and vice versa.
PS: Drive force isn't a general term in the gun world, hence why you haven't heard it before.
First - what possible source could you be referring to to state with a straight face that the 8mm can be loaded to same or higher pressures as the 30-06"
I'll pick two actions - and FN600 and a M700 Remington. Show me a relaible source (any one will do for starters) that has tested these two in a statistically meaningful manner which supports this interesting statement? Same Brass, primers and bullet weight - vary the powder to achieve relative burn rates
Second - the greater diameter of the 8mm WILL enable a higher velocity somewhere in the middle range of bullet weights like 180-198gr but doesn't at the lower range.
Here is a factory 30-06 - one of the world famous 'light loads' so disdained by 8x57JS lovers - MV= 3,100 fps which is higher than your reload 8mm. Find a factory load in 8mm that is faster?
https://www.hornady.com/shop/?page=ballistics/popup&product_sku=85199
we can one-up each other on re-loads if you wish. I have both my eyes and all my fingers because I do pay attention to pressure signs. I have a couple of actions that individually (not in ANY way recommended by Mfr) that are probably capable of 70K psi but I'm not going there just to chase hot reloads.
You may seek any reload data you wish. I noticed your source mentioned 56K (+) so you perhaps overlooked a little bit what the max pressure was or could be for those loads - I would be suspicious of the "+" as well as pulling a load from a website.
I'll stick with Nosler 5th Edition and Hogdon, Speer and Barnes because the loads are all lab tested - and in some cases with some rifles I have seen some pressure signs even with these
On the factory loads I was quoting to you for the 8x57JS I used Norma and RW which I believe are still made 'somewhere in Europe"?? Both were hotter than Remington and Hornady factory rounds.
Here is another factory load for 165Gr 30-06 at 2802fps
https://www.hornady.com/shop/?page=ballistics/popup&product_sku=85159
I noticed that the Max load tested by Nosler #5, for 8mmx57JS, for the 180gr NBT was 49.0 gr Varget at 2669fps w/24"bbl
The Nosler max load for 30-06 was 2872fps for 24" for the 180gr NBT using 61 gr RL22 - hotter than the Hornady Light Mag and way hotter than the fastest reload in Nosler (only this example). This is my personal Elk load when I'm not using the 338-06 w/225gr accubond
As to "drive force" (your first reason for using that phrase was to 'demonstrate' why the 8mm kicked more...) that doesn't float as far as recoil is concerned - the recoil force is still 1/2 MV>2 until you show me the math on some nebulous pressure distribution that proves that the 30-06 bullet
accelerates much slower initially then picks up velocity much faster
Regards,
Bill