"The case for the P-47 Thunderbolt being the greatest fighter of the Second World War "

NVSMITH · Mar 4, 2023

-This is from Hushkit.net,"The alternative aviation magazine" Some of their stuff is strange but some is quite interesting. Here are some links about the Jug and it's history. There are some good photos.
https://hushkit.net/2023/02/27/the-case-for-the-p-47-thunderbolt-being-the-greatest-fighter-of-the-second-world-war/
https://hushkit.net/2023/02/21/the-republic-p-47-thunderbolt-mafia-family/
https://hushkit.net/2023/02/20/10-things-you-need-to-know-about-the-p-47-thunderbolt/
https://hushkit.net/2023/02/16/the-final-aerial-combat-of-the-p-47-thunderbolt-killed-a-p-51-mustang/

Thumpalumpacus · Mar 4, 2023

All of those links only link to one story.

Much as I loves me a Jug, I'm going with P-51 for mass-produced excellence, and Me-262 for simple aerial capability despite its low production numbers.

Here's an honest question: which American fighter did the Axis fear more? I'd think that would tell the truth about 'em.

ETA: Demerits for the lousy bastage answering "der Gabelschwanz Teuful".

Shortround6 · Mar 4, 2023

Thumpalumpacus said:
Demerits for the lousy bastage answering "der Gabelschwanz Teuful".

But it said so right in the Pilots manual and we all know that the US military would never lie to it's troops

PAT303 · Mar 4, 2023

A tie between the Spitfire and Me 109. Both fighters were there at the start and still there at the end, both were used in every theatre of WW2 including at sea in regards to the Spit, both were top tier throughout the war, again in the case of the Spit the design was adaptable enough to match it's adversaries as they appeared, all in all no other fighters can match them simply because there would have been no need for technological advancement in both fighter and aircraft development in general without them existing, especially fighters that entered service years after the war started.

Greg Boeser · Mar 4, 2023

Thumpalumpacus said:
All of those links only link to one story.

Much as I loves me a Jug, I'm going with P-51 for mass-produced excellence, and Me-262 for simple aerial capability despite its low production numbers.

Here's an honest question: which American fighter did the Axis fear more? I'd think that would tell the truth about 'em.

ETA: Demerits for the lousy bastage answering "der Gabelschwanz Teuful".

Oh, you want "das verdammte Murmeltier"?

SaparotRob · Mar 5, 2023

GrauGeist · Mar 5, 2023

Aside from what I've read and heard, a late family friend who was with JG27 said he respected the P-51 highly but absolutely loathed the P-47's appearance in battle, as they were (in his words) "impossible to destroy".

He did admire them but felt they were more dangerous than a P-51.

GregP · Mar 5, 2023

I've heard 10 people offer that same general opinion. All of them were WWII pilot vets and not all flew P-47s. 6 were Allied pilots and 4 were axis pilots (well, one was French and I'm not too sure if he was one one side or maybe both).

One was a U.S. pilot who flew both P-47s and P-51s. He preferred the P-47 to fight in, but felt the P-51 was a fine airplane, too.

The erstwhile"moral" of this is that by the time a fighter got into production, it wasn't a bad airplane. There were no real "loser" fighters out there in WWII except maybe the Boulton-Paul Defiant, and it was more of a flawed concept than a bad airplane. Perhaps the MS.406 was less than stellar in WWII, but wasn't at all bad when it came out in 1935. It just didn't have the growth potential of the Bf 109 and Spitfire.

pbehn · Mar 5, 2023

On another thread 1941 is considered mid war, so the P-47 starting operations in Europe in 1943 is just before the end.

GregP · Mar 5, 2023

Might be mid-war to some, but the actual war started in 1939 and went to 1945.

So, actual mid-war is 1942. Mid-war to the U.S.A. is in 1943.

Not really all that much different in time, but a year of aero development in WW2 was significant, considering we entered the war with 150 mph fabric biplanes in first-line service and ended 6 years later in 540 mph aluminum jets and 600+ mph rocket fighters.

Thumpalumpacus · Mar 5, 2023

PAT303 said:
A tie between the Spitfire and Me 109. Both fighters were there at the start and still there at the end, both were used in every theatre of WW2 including at sea in regards to the Spit, both were top tier throughout the war, again in the case of the Spit the design was adaptable enough to match it's adversaries as they appeared, all in all no other fighters can match them simply because there would have been no need for technological advancement in both fighter and aircraft development in general without them existing, especially fighters that entered service years after the war started.

The Spit is definitely in the conversation as it was so suitable for upgrades that it could stay relevant, but by '44-'45, even with the -K model I think the -109 is an also-ran. Certainly had a great run the first four years of the war, though.

You're right that both planes spurred progress, but by the end of the war, the Spit still had room for mods to expand its capabilities, while the basic design of the -109 limited its ability to take much further variation. Does that make sense?

GrauGeist · Mar 5, 2023

Thumpalumpacus said:
...the basic design of the -109 limited its ability to take much further variation.

They *almost* took it one step further with the proposed Bf109TL variant, but by 1943, it was abandoned and the Me262 took all the focus on getting into production.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Mar 5, 2023

One aircraft and one aircraft only can be the greatest…

The P-39

Greg Boeser · Mar 5, 2023

You stop that!

GregP · Mar 5, 2023

That's as bad as when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor!

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Mar 5, 2023

Greg Boeser said:
You stop that!

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Mar 5, 2023

GregP said:
That's as bad as when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor!

Are you telling me they didn't??

WARSPITER · Mar 5, 2023

Greg Boeser said:
You stop that!

It's ok. There was no definition as to the greatest what.

PAT303 · Mar 6, 2023

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:
One aircraft and one aircraft only can be the greatest…

The P-39

View attachment 709945

You had to do it didn't you haha

PAT303 · Mar 6, 2023

Thumpalumpacus said:
You're right that both planes spurred progress, but by the end of the war, the Spit still had room for mods to expand its capabilities, while the basic design of the -109 limited its ability to take much further variation. Does that make sense?

I get what you are saying but Hurricanes and P40's were still fighting in may theatres and the A6M was widely used by the Japanese until the end, the 109 outclassed them all.

"The case for the P-47 Thunderbolt being the greatest fighter of the Second World War "

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