The Falklands (1 Viewer)

Here's an ironic story: The Dutch had an aircraft carrier, given to them, I believe, by the British called by the Dutch the Karel Doorman which was itself the second Dutch Carrier. The original Karel Doorman was a refitted merchant ship redone in 1943, I believe. In any case, the newer Karel Doorman served in the Dutch fleet until about 1968 when it had an engine room fire. After that it was sold to Argentina and became the Veinticinco de Mayo. This is the carrier I thought was lost during the Falklands war, but it was not and continued in Argentinian service until it was decommissioned in 1997. I had no idea the Dutch had an aircraft carrier into the latter half of the 60s.

Glider said:

Spain have a carrier as do India, as to cost the small carriers as used by those countries with these assets (excluding USA and France) are no more expensive than most large Naval Vessels.

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I was thinking more in terms of fleet carriers rather helicopter or even the small VSTOL carriers, but point well-taken, Glider.

royal744 said:

Frankly, Argentina was incredibly stupid to launch this disastrous adventure and, in the process, lost the only aircraft carrier they had.

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Argentina never lost an Aircraft Carrier during the Falklands conflict. Do you read comic books or take hallucinogenic drugs, probably a combination of both?!?!

This goes to show you the stupidity of some wanna-bees when they attempt to infiltrate a forum such like this with left wing liberal stupidity.

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Banned so fast ? , poor guy, he entered with wrong foot here. , but yes it was a little stupid.

Possible Submarine

In May 5, 1982 the ARA Tracker S-2E flown by Lt. Enrique Fortini with the support of a SH-3D commanded by Lt. Osvaldo Iglesias, launch a MK-44 SW torpedo following the route of non-identified submarine. This submarine was detected formerly by other Tracker (2-AS-23) flown by Lt. Carlos Ernesto Cal who was flying to find survivals of ARA Sobral ship.

This often reported incident was a case of mistaken identity as no British sub was actually attacked in this manner. Ironically one, HMS Valient was shaken by an accidental near miss.
She was monitoring one of the airbases was an A4 had to abort a mission and dumped its bombload before landing, close to where the Valient was monitoring the activity.
The sub was obviously suprised as the explosions came as far as they were concerned with no warning, from nowhere. Fortunately for the RN no damage was sustained.

Ironically one, HMS Valient was shaken by an accidental near miss.
She was monitoring one of the airbases was an A4 had to abort a mission and dumped its bombload before landing, close to where the Valient was monitoring the activity.
The sub was obviously suprised as the explosions came as far as they were concerned with no warning, from nowhere. Fortunately for the RN no damage was sustained.

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Nice history

This often reported incident was a case of mistaken identity as no British sub was actually attacked in this manner

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Perhaps was attacked but not hit.

No none were attacked. One thing that hasn't changed despite all the technology is the mis identifying of submarine contacts. People think that its a precise art but when the shells start flying it loses its edge.

RN ships that had been in the conflict for a while had got over this learning curve and watched with some amusement new ships claiming contacts as one put it 'every time a fish farted'

Maybe the S-2e blasted a whale

Operation Black Buck:




The Vulcan was designed as one of the Royal Air Forces' Triumverate of strategic bombers known as the V-Force. A huge delta-winged aircraft, it was capable of carrying the Blue Steel stand off nuclear missile, and during its career served in the Strategic Bomber role, before converting to the low-level bomber role and finally to the tanker role in its last few years.

The Vulcan's most well-known operation in the RAF, were the 8,000 mile bombing trips against the Argentine held Falkland Islands in 1982. These were the Black Buck missions. Some Vulcans were equipped with wings pylons to carry the American supplied Shrike anti-radar missile, and plans for the aircraft to carry the Skybolt were abandoned. The last Vulcan was retired from service in March 1984. None of the Vulcan raids actually destroyed Stanley runway, nor did they deny the Argentines using the runway. Craters show in the image below were in fact heaps of earth placed there by the Argentines to make it look as though the runway was damaged. What the Black Raids did did do, was to discourage the Argentine Air Force from keeping fast attack aircraft stationed at Stanley.

Hits in Pt Argentino/Stanley aistrip:



Three Vulcans were deployed to Wideawake airfield on Ascension Island, of which two flew Black Buck raids against the Falkland Islands. Eleven Victor tankers, including a standby aircraft were required to refuel the Vulcans before and after their attacks on the Falklands. The attacking Vulcan was refuelled five times on the outward journey and once on the return journey. These raids, although representing only a small part of the effort directed against the Argentines' on the Falklands, also graphically demonstrated RAF Strike Command's ability to strike the Argentine homeland if it had been necessary. These raids also forced the Argentine Air Force to withdraw their Mirage II fighters to stand defense over the mainland instead of engaging the Royal Navy and RAF Sea Harriers over the Falklands.

The Vulcans were captained by Squadron Leader Neil McDougall, Squadron Leader John Reeve and Flight Lieutenant Martin Withers. Black Buck One: 30th April and Black Buck Two: 4th May
Bombing raids on the Port Stanley airfield, The Attacking Vulcan carried 21 1,000lb bombs, and the attacking aircraft were backed up by another Vulcan on standby in case of problems.



Black Buck Three: 31st May and Black Buck Four: 3rd June

Missile strikes against Argentine Skyguard radar on the Falklands using American supplied Shrike Anti-Radar missiles on hastily improvised underwing pylons. During the 3rd June mission, the Vulcan sustained damage to its air refuelling probe and was forced to land at Rio de Janeiro in Brazil, where the aircraft was impounded until the 11th June, and the remaining Shrike missile was confiscated, This Vulcan was captained by Squadron Leader Neil McDougall.


Black Buck Five: 12th June
The final Black Buck mission was against Argentine troop positions close to Port Stanley using 1,000lb bombs.


The Shrike Missile

The Raytheon Shrike Anti-radar missile was carried by the Vulcans in Black Buck missions Three and Four, to engage and destroy Argentine Skyguards radar's. These missile require an active radar to target, and if the radar is switched off, lose their lock.


For more detail in this extremely long range bombing attack go to:

Falkland Islands - A history of the 1982 conflict

posted twice

Poor timing by the Argentinians?

This from 'World Conflicts' by Patrick Brogan pp461 1998.

"The point is illustrated by the timing of the invasion: 2 April 1982. It was in the autumn. If they had waited two months longer, it would have been too late in the year for Britain to mount a counter-offensive, and the Falklands would have been in Argentina's hands undisturbed for the next six months. What is more, the British had just sold one of their last two aircraft carriers to Australia and were preparing to scrap the second, together with several other warships that were used in the task force that eventually recaptured the islands. If Argentina had waited another year, the British would not have had the resources to retake the Falklands, and would have been forced to acquiesce in the fait accompli".

(The infamous runway crater, reproduced many times in books and magazines, being a work of deception- is a very interesting 'fact' indeed.)

The crater on the runway from the first Vulcan raid was a real crater. The Argentines did use dummy craters after other attacks but that was a real one.

I have seen pictures taken by the British after the war and descriptions as to how difficult it was to fix due to the damage in the soil structure and land heave.

Glider said:

The crater on the runway from the first Vulcan raid was a real crater. The Argentines did use dummy craters after other attacks but that was a real one.

I have seen pictures taken by the British after the war and descriptions as to how difficult it was to fix due to the damage in the soil structure and land heave.

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I am inclined to agree. I suspect that the photo in question would have been picked at the time to graphically illustrate, for the public, the line of hits. The Ministry of Defence would have had many more, showing far better resolution, but never released?

Poor timing by the Argentinians?

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The most definately yes, the british have in mind decomissionating one carrier at the end of that year.


And note this:




That bombs over the flag still make me nervous.

Charles, have you heard of this?

I recently chanced upon a short article written 10 yrs ago about the exploits of one (Lieutenant) Jose Maria Pereyra Dozo, a flying instructor at the Naval Aviation School in Argentina. As a result of the conflict he was ultimately to lead a division of Beechcraft T-34C Turbo- Mentors into 'battle', in the role of Close Air Support, based at the Calderon Naval Air Station on Borton Island (Pebble Island). The Mentors were armed with "machine guns and rockets". Eventually they ended up sharing the Island with Pucaras.

In summary they undertook seven missions. Six as armed reconnaissance and one to "intercept a British helicopter landing near Puerto Argentino". It's this mission which fills most of the article, in his own words. Somewhere after just crossing the Falkland Sound they were intercepted by two Sea Harriers.

He describes in detail how he outmaneuvered the Harrier low on the water seeing "splashes on the water of a burst of cannon fire"(30mm). Jettisoning his load he managed to evade the Harrier in cloud (300metres above sea level). He eventually made it back to Calderon's runway with only a "hole" on the rear cockpit canopy.

The SAS raid on Calderon on May 14 1982 ended any further missions.The aircraft were mostly destroyed or damaged by grenade launchers, explosives and small arms fire but one survived Turbo-Mentor, '1-A-411', which was at one point in time on display at the Fleet Air Arm Museum at Yeovilton, Somerset.
He and his crew were evacuated by army helicopter to Puerto Argentino and managed to penetrate the no-fly zone in a Beechcraft King Air 200 back to the mainland three days later.

If anything, a good advertisement for Beechcraft aircraft!

Nice history thanks. 8)

C-130 "Long range Bomber":



The AAF also used this venerable transport aircraft to attack the british shipping on route to the Malvinas.

2 aircraft C-130B from the 1th air brigade was modified with a Canberra bombsight and aditional pilons to carry 12 x FAS 250 kg bombs.

The makeshift solution was succesful and the Hercules hit 2 ships, the HMS wye (damaged) and a Liberian tanker ironically called "hercules" that ship was so badly damaged that eventually sunk.

Dont want to disappoint anyone, but there isn't and wasn't an HMW Wye, well not since WW2 anyway. There was a Britsh Wye a merchant tanker supporting the Fleet with fuel that was attacked by a C130 when on detached from the fleet without escort, but no damage was incurred as the one bomb that hit bounced off her deck and failed to explode.
As for the Hercules, she was Liberian but was leased by the USA and had nothing to do with the British fleet. She was attacked twice but the C130missed the first time and the bomb that hit failed to detonate and was lodged in her hull. She was scuttled later due to the risk of defusing the bomb not because of the damage in the attack.

I have to say that I don't consider this to be a success.

How on earth can you miss a tanker, there huge.

Was the British Wye alright.

And I did consider that a success since the C-130 was anything but a bomber.