The Fantastic Accuracy Of Otto Fönnekold’s Victory Claims

[CHen10]

JG52 Luftwaffe pilot Otto Fönnekold may not be as famous as some of his fellow aces, but in reality he was actually much more accurate than a lot of them. He had 136 total victories and 53 of them have been examined so far. Out of the 53 examined, 48 are verified giving him an outstanding 90.5% accuracy rate.

Here are some of Fönnekold's results:

And here is Fönnekold's claims compared with others during the battles at Kerch

(This data is from a German book so I used a translator to present it in English)

But Fönnekold's most impressive day was 30 May 1944. He had 7 victories on 30 May 1944 and quite impressively ALL 7 are confirmed with his victims being P-39s from 129 GIAP, 438 IAP, and 508 IAP.

During the Battle of Iasi, Lieutenant Otto Fönnekold had 12 victories and Soviet documents confirmed at least 7-8, while the remaining successes may belong to both him and other pilots. Lieutenant Walter Wolfrum also stands out and when it comes to the 24 victories he claimed during the week of fighting over Iasi, at least 13-14 are confirmed.

Both Fönnekold and Wolfrum stand out as some of the Luftwaffe's best

Otto Fönnekold:

 

[Mesan]

Are those images taken from a book? I googled " Three falcons of II/JG52" and came empty -handed

 

[Mainly28s]

Welches Buch ist das? Ich kann es auf deutsch lesen, danke!

(Which book is it? I can read it in German, thanks!)

 

[CHen10]

This is the book the information comes from. The book focuses on Barkhorn, Fönnekold and Lipfert in particular.

 

[Mainly28s]

Thank you- I'll see if I can get one.

 

[Dimlee]

90% accuracy is impressive.

 

[CHen10]

90% accuracy is impressive.

Yep. Fönnekold, Wolfrum and Lipfert are pilots you can trust.

 

[CHen10]

Here is a comparison of some JG52 pilots with the figure in brackets being their total number of claims so not all of their victories have been analysed yet:

Otto Fonnekold: 48 of 53 (136)- 90.5%
Helmut Lipfert: 119 of 132 (203) - 90.1%
Heinrich Sturm: 27 of 30 (158) - 90.0%
Gunther Rall: 43 of 50 (275) - 86.0%
Gerhard Barkhorn: 106 of 159 (301) - 66.6%
Erich Hartmann: 31 of 72 (352) - 43.0%

Despite Hartmann having the highest number of claims at 352, Sturm, Lipfert and Fönnekold were much more effective fighter pilots.

This is what I meant in my original post when I said "Otto Fönnekold may not be as famous as some of his fellow aces, but in reality he was actually much more accurate than a lot of them."

 

[GrauGeist]

Gerhard Thyben (JG3/JG54) had a fairly high level of claim accuracy, too.

 

[CHen10]

Gerhard Thyben (JG3/JG54) had a fairly high level of claim accuracy, too.

Do you know what his claims and overclaims were?

 

[GrauGeist]

Do you know what his claims and overclaims were?

As I recall, there were five (or six?) out of 157 claims that had issues with validation.

It's been years since I've read about his service.

One notable (and verified) kill, occurred on the day after Germany surrendered, where he encountered a Pe-2 searching for German refugee ships as he (and his crew chief, who was stowed away in the luggage compartment) was in the process of escaping to the west in order to surrender to the British and/or Americans.
He engaged it and shot it down, makiing it the last kill by an Fw190 and one of the last victories by the Luftwaffe.

 

[CHen10]

As I recall, there were five (or six?) out of 157 claims that had issues with validation.

It's been years since I've read about his service.

One notable (and verified) kill, occurred on the day after Germany surrendered, where he encountered a Pe-2 searching for German refugee ships as he (and his crew chief, who was stowed away in the luggage compartment) was in the process of escaping to the west in order to surrender to the British and/or Americans.
He engaged it and shot it down, makiing it the last kill by an Fw190 and one of the last victories by the Luftwaffe.

So is that 151 of 157? That's about 96.2%!

 

[bf109xxl]

Do you know what his claims and overclaims were?

152 of 157 his victories were claimed on the Eastern Front. Could you imagine that somebody has verified more than 140 his victories on the EF during a long time period and on different sectors of the EF? I don't. However, I would appreciate a source for this information.

 

[bf109xxl]

View attachment 825487

This is the book the information comes from. The book focuses on Barkhorn, Fönnekold and Lipfert in particular.

I will definitely order this book.

 

[CHen10]

I will definitely order this book.

I highly recommend it. One of the co authors, Ivan Lavrinenko has written several amazing articles about Luftwaffe pilots, analysing their victories and overclaims and I recommend people read them as well.

 

[dedalos]

Here is a comparison of some JG52 pilots with the figure in brackets being their total number of claims so not all of their victories have been analysed yet:

Otto Fonnekold: 48 of 53 (136)- 90.5%
Helmut Lipfert: 119 of 132 (203) - 90.1%
Heinrich Sturm: 27 of 30 (158) - 90.0%
Gunther Rall: 43 of 50 (275) - 86.0%
Gerhard Barkhorn: 106 of 159 (301) - 66.6%
Erich Hartmann: 31 of 72 (352) - 43.0%

Despite Hartmann having the highest number of claims at 352, Sturm, Lipfert and Fönnekold were much more effective fighter pilots.

This is what I meant in my original post when I said "Otto Fönnekold may not be as famous as some of his fellow aces, but in reality he was actually much more accurate than a lot of them."

Lipfert in his book calls Hartmann " by far the best fighter pilot"
But what importance has lipferts opinion ?
What is important is your opinion . You know better than lipfert
When I read your initial post , I understood immediately your eventual target. Your agenda is well known
Gunther Rall was alive well into the 22st century. Why did not ask him about your "research" ? Instead immediately after all survivors of the era died you start launching mad on the air

 

[CHen10]

Lipfert in his book calls Hartmann " by far the best fighter pilot"
But what importance has lipferts opinion ?
What is important is your opinion . You know better than lipfert
When I read your initial post , I understood immediately your eventual target. Your agenda is well known
Gunther Rall was alive well into the 22st century. Why did not ask him about your "research" ? Instead immediately after all survivors of the era died you start launching mad on the air

Lipfert called Hartmann the best because Hartmann had the most claims.

These are not opinions, they are simple facts and you just can't handle the truth so you start scrambling around for any made up excuse.

And no, Hartmann is not "my eventual target". This thread is about Fönnekold not Hartmann. I only mentioned Hartmann to give some context of other pilots. I didn't just mention Hartmann I also mentioned other pilots of JG52.

I would have loved to have met Günther Rall, but I would have been far too young to ever talk with him.

Oh and don't try to insult this by calling it "research" with speech marks. This research is the result of many people's hard work.

So live in your fantasy, that's fine. But don't insult the researchers who discovered this.

Please leave this thread because it isn't for you. You simply don't know what you're talking about.

This thread is about Fönnekold. NOT Hartmann. So let's stick to Fönnekold.

 

[bf109xxl]

One of the co authors, Ivan Lavrinenko has written several amazing articles about Luftwaffe pilots, analysing their victories and overclaims and I recommend people read them as well.

I have already read some of his publications. Despite some non-academic style (acceptable for Internet publications, however), I highly appreciate his efforts.

 

[Holtzauge]

Here is a comparison of some JG52 pilots with the figure in brackets being their total number of claims so not all of their victories have been analysed yet:

Otto Fonnekold: 48 of 53 (136)- 90.5%
Helmut Lipfert: 119 of 132 (203) - 90.1%
Heinrich Sturm: 27 of 30 (158) - 90.0%
Gunther Rall: 43 of 50 (275) - 86.0%
Gerhard Barkhorn: 106 of 159 (301) - 66.6%
Erich Hartmann: 31 of 72 (352) - 43.0%

Despite Hartmann having the highest number of claims at 352, Sturm, Lipfert and Fönnekold were much more effective fighter pilots.

This is what I meant in my original post when I said "Otto Fönnekold may not be as famous as some of his fellow aces, but in reality he was actually much more accurate than a lot of them."

Lipfert called Hartmann the best because Hartmann had the most claims.

These are not opinions, they are simple facts and you just can't handle the truth so you start scrambling around for any made up excuse.

And no, Hartmann is not "my eventual target". This thread is about Fönnekold not Hartmann. I only mentioned Hartmann to give some context of other pilots. I didn't just mention Hartmann I also mentioned other pilots of JG52.

I would have loved to have met Günther Rall, but I would have been far too young to ever talk with him.

Oh and don't try to insult this by calling it "research" with speech marks. This research is the result of many people's hard work.

So live in your fantasy, that's fine. But don't insult the researchers who discovered this.

Please leave this thread because it isn't for you. You simply don't know what you're talking about.

This thread is about Fönnekold. NOT Hartmann. So let's stick to Fönnekold.

Then why do you yourself yet AGAIN add Hartmann to your list and yet AGAIN post your low accuracy estimates for him? You're like broken record: You keep on opening these new threads which all have in common that they in some way snipe at Hartmann's claims. You could have left Hartmann out but you didn't.

This has now been debated in this forum ad nauseam: You hold the Soviet records to be gospel truth and as some sort of measuring stock against which everything can be measured while many of us here don't think they are worth the paper they are written on in many cases. We simply have different opinions capisce?

You starting new threads repeating the same arguments again and again and telling us it's us and not you who live in a fantasy won't change that. Just accept that and spare us your incessant beating of this by now long dead horse.

I only replied to point out the hypocrisy of you lecturing others to keep this about Fönnekold when you can't even do that yourself.

And with that I'll go back to ignoring this thread just as it deserves.

 

[bf109xxl]

This has now been debated in this forum ad nauseam: You hold the Soviet records to be gospel truth and as some sort of measuring stock against which everything can be measured while many of us here don't think they are worth the paper they are written on in many cases. We simply have different opinions capisce?

Simply because such criticism of Soviet documents only shows that the critics do not have the slightest idea about them. The critics did not work in the archives and have no idea about the Soviet system of document circulation. The whole point of criticism consists only in repeating the mantra "and we don't believe it!". This is obviously an anti-scientific approach, and such an opinion has zero value.

You starting new threads repeating the same arguments again and again and telling us it's us and not you who live in a fantasy won't change that. Just accept that and spare us your incessant beating of this by now long dead horse.

I don't care what those who just have a different opinion think - I find CHen10's arguments far more valid than the unsubstantiated assertions of Hartmann's fan club members.

And with that I'll go back to ignoring this thread just as it deserves.

Thank you very much! I hope you keep your word and don't flood the thread with unsubstantiated opinions.