The Greatest Fighter Jet of All Time.

[XBe02Drvr]

So their IFF circuitry mimicked ours because they were monitoring them, and relaying them to their interceptors?

No, their IFF circuitry mimicked ours because they were so far behind us in that technology it was easier to steal it through espionage than to develop their own version.

What kind of SIGINT were they using?

Ground stations, mostly I would guess, as they weren't particularly well supplied with aircraft or ships.

Those figures seem to have been reported over the years.

I have a hard time imagining an F4 with pylons and ejector racks sustaining 7 Gs without bleeding energy, even with no ordnance hanging. It's all about L/D at high alpha, and those ejector racks are draggy beasts.

The F-104G's with the GE-19's

What the heck is a GE-19? Is that a typo for GE J79, the Starfighter's actual engine, an earlier version of the F4's and RA5C's engines?
Cheers,
Wes

 

[rob23]

Your not kiddin. I knew about the F8 of course but not that version. I actually kinda like the looks of the f8 so I thought how bad could this experimental version be so I headed off to Wiki to get a peak.........well I got my answer....... it really is that bad. Ouch!!

I always thought the Vietnam F-8 looked like it was going 1000 just sitting on the ramp. But the F8U-III, pretty ugly. No, really ugly. Must have scared the ground away.

 

[XBe02Drvr]

Must have scared the ground away.

No, made the sea want to rise up and smite it!

 

[Elmas]

Many years ago (early '80s) I was talking with Oberstleutnant Lothar S., that was then the deputy Commander of the Luftwaffe detachment at Decimomannu AFB and had been previously the Chief test Pilot of the MRCA-Tormado program. The rest of his qualifications could be easily imagined, as He flew with anything from F-84 to F-15, and from G-91 to F-4.
Son of Art, as his Father was in the Nachtjagt.
"What has been the plane you loved best, Lothar?" I asked.
He didn't even let me finish the question.
"But F-104, of course."

 

[Glider]

Many years ago (early '80s) I was talking with Oberstleutnant Lothar S., that was then the deputy Commander of the Luftwaffe detachment at Decimomannu AFB and had been previously the Chief test Pilot of the MRCA-Tormado program. The rest of his qualifications could be easily imagined, as He flew with anything from F-84 to F-15, and from G-91 to F-4.
Son of Art, as his Father was in the Nachtjagt.
"What has been the plane you loved best, Lothar?" I asked.
He didn't even let me finish the question.
"But F-104, of course."

Which proves one thing, he never flew the Lighting.

 

[Sid327]

For looks,

In my humble opinion, the Mig 29 is a real beauty to look at. The Mig 35 also. They just look right.

I'm not bothered about nationalism, nor combat kills. A good pilot in a ''clunker'' will often make the difference as I'm a big believer in the ''sloppy-link'' between the seat and the controls being the key.

Combat records may count for others ....and I don't disagree, but this assumes the opponents were equally capable fly boys; In most cases I believe they were not.

When you consider the effectiveness of the people that these aircraft were against it's not something that's too surprising (having lived and worked in the Middle East for almost twenty years ...and worked as a Military SAR pilot for two of them). [I'm trying to be tactfull here, but it's difficult]

If the F-15 and others were up against equally capable ''sloppy-links'' it might tell a different story.

But I'm happy to accept being schooled by others that know better, without taking offence.
Just saying there may be a need to consider the effectiveness of certain countries military prowess, or effectiveness.

 

[Elmas]

Which proves one thing, he never flew the Lighting.

Wich Ligthning? This one?

 

[Glider]

Wich Ligthning? This one?

View attachment 550693

Full marks for imagination, not a lot for accuracy

 

[michael rauls]

I voted fpr the F15 all round but just wanted to add, the Electric Lightning for it's particular nitch at it's particular time was really excellent imho and gets points for imaginative/ thinking outside the box design as well.

 

[Elvis]

...all this talk of English Electric Lightnings makes me yearn for a good ol' F-106.
That'll give ya' a stiff upper lip.

 

[jetcal1]

I voted fpr the F15 all round but just wanted to add, the Electric Lightning for it's particular nitch at it's particular time was really excellent imho and gets points for imaginative/ thinking outside the box design as well.

It's a funny thing about the sobriquet of "greatest". It's not hard to imagine the Lighting as the greatest point defense interceptor. Greatest fighter? A great argument could be made for the MiG-21. I guess it all boils down to what could you strap on the airplane and expect it to do fairly well outside its' original design parameters as well as the original designed mission.
So even as a now ancient F-14 8345/6415 guy, I'd have to look pretty hard at the F-4/F-15/F-16, having said that, please let me know what other aircraft you feel were as efficiently versatile.
The F-18? No legs.

 

[michael rauls]

It's a funny thing about the sobriquet of "greatest". It's not hard to imagine the Lighting as the greatest point defense interceptor. Greatest fighter? A great argument could be made for the MiG-21. I guess it all boils down to what could you strap on the airplane and expect it to do fairly well outside its' original design parameters as well as the original designed mission.
So even as a now ancient F-14 8345/6415 guy, I'd have to look pretty hard at the F-4/F-15/F-16, having said that, please let me know what other aircraft you feel were as efficiently versatile.
The F-18? No legs.

Well for versatility you just can't beat a Phantom in my opinion. Can't really think of anything that plane couldn't do at least reasonably well.

 

[jetcal1]

I voted fpr the F15 all round but just wanted to add, the Electric Lightning for it's particular nitch at it's particular time was really excellent imho and gets points for imaginative/ thinking outside the box design as well.

It's a funny thing about the sobriquet of "greatest". It's not hard to imagine the Lighting as the greatest interceptor. Greatest fighter?

Well for versatility you just can't beat a Phantom in my opinion. Can't really think of anything that plane couldn't do at least reasonably well.

Well, you have to add points due to the simple fact that it could repeatedly trap onboard a CV.

 

[michael rauls]

It's a funny thing about the sobriquet of "greatest". It's not hard to imagine the Lighting as the greatest interceptor. Greatest fighter?

Well, you have to add points due to the simple fact that it could repeatedly trap onboard a CV.

Must admit I'm not 100% sure what trap means in this context. I'm guessing it means to "operate" off a carrier(cv).
And yes, this is good for alot of versatility points imho.

 

[jetcal1]

I voted fpr the F15 all round but just wanted to add, the Electric Lightning for it's particular nitch at it's particular time was really excellent imho and gets points for imaginative/ thinking outside the box design as well.

It's a funny thing about the sobriquet of "greatest". It's not hard to imagine the Lighting as the greatest interceptor. Greatest fighter?

Must admit I'm not 100% sure what trap means in this context. I'm guessing it means to "operate" off a carrier(cv).
And yes, this is good for alot of versatility points imho.

Sorry, old navy guy. Trap does indeed mean land onboard a carrier.

 

[Elvis]

It's a funny thing about the sobriquet of "greatest". It's not hard to imagine the Lighting as the greatest point defense interceptor. Greatest fighter? A great argument could be made for the MiG-21. I guess it all boils down to what could you strap on the airplane and expect it to do fairly well outside its' original design parameters as well as the original designed mission.
So even as a now ancient F-14 8345/6415 guy, I'd have to look pretty hard at the F-4/F-15/F-16, having said that, please let me know what other aircraft you feel were as efficiently versatile.
The F-18? No legs.

Let's not forget, it was your F-14 that eventually replaced the F-4 as the Navy's main fighter.
Flew faster, flew farther, carried a greater payload, piloted by Tom Cruise in the movies, what's not to love?!
F-4 proved the idea of the i-Phone Fighter, the F-14 took it to the next level, the F/A-18...…..

 

[XBe02Drvr]

Flew faster, flew farther, carried a greater payload, piloted by Tom Cruise in the movies, what's not to love?!

Maintenance man hours/flight hour, especially as the airframes began to age. That's what's not to love.
Now Iran is the only member of the Tomcat Club. It priced itself out of the market for us. That's why it comes after the F4, Mig21, F86, Hawker Hunter, F16 and F15 in my lineup. Versatility, performance, and longevity are what count in my book.
Cheers,
Wes

 

[XBe02Drvr]

Trap does indeed mean land onboard a carrier.

Trap: To be grabbed by a wire attached to a 70,000 ton ship when your 45,000 pound jet is in full burner and trying to get airborne again. The old timers used to tell me the term originated in the days of straight deck carriers when bolters were not possible, so if you missed all 13 wires, the elastic barrier "trapped" you. Every touch down resulted in a full stop landing, one way or another.
Cheers,
Wes

 

[Elvis]

Maintenance man hours/flight hour, especially as the airframes began to age. That's what's not to love.
Now Iran is the only member of the Tomcat Club. It priced itself out of the market for us. That's why it comes after the F4, Mig21, F86, Hawker Hunter, F16 and F15 in my lineup. Versatility, performance, and longevity are what count in my book.
Cheers,
Wes

Say what you will, it still REPLACED the F-4.
It's neve perfect. There's always some bad with the good.

Elvis

 

[XBe02Drvr]

Say what you will, it still REPLACED the F-4.
It's neve perfect. There's always some bad with the good.

Elvis

True enough, but when the bad gets so bad you can't afford it, you lose the good as well. And then there's the hidden factor. As long as we operated and supported Tomcats, the black market supply of parts and support to Iran couldn't be stopped. Somehow that became more important than the additional marginal utility of the F14 fleet.
Cheers,
Wes