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lesofprimus
Brigadier General
This is Kozhedubs La-5 FN, the one talked about in the interview...
A pic of him with said aircraft...
A pic of him with said aircraft...
The Greatest Fighter Pilot in WW II???
- Thread starter lesofprimus
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- #22
lesofprimus
Brigadier General
Here is Kozhedubs La-7, which he flew from April 1945 till the end of hostilities...
And another here that i added to library...
And another here that i added to library...
- Thread starter
- #23
lesofprimus
Brigadier General
Here's some interesting dialogue about Hartmann...
III./JG 52's commander, Major Hubertus von Bonin, placed Hartmann under Oberfeldwebel Grislawski's wings. The miner's son Alfred Grislawski found a particular pleasure in teaching this newcomer the name of the game. He made a few mock combats with Hartmann. This relieved Hartmann of some of his ambitious ideas, but Grislawski had to admit that although Hartmann had much to learn regarding combat tactics, he actually was a quite talented pilot.
The trouble started when they started flying combat missions together. Grislawski immediately noted that the newcomer was one of those who thought they were going to "shoot together a Knight's Cross" in no time. Hartmann barely had started to leave his place behind Grislawski's aircraft to direct his Bf 109 against an I-16, when his earphones seemed to explode: "You bloody idiot! What the hell do you think you're doing? I'm your leader! Get back in place or I'll shoot you down!" Grislawski kept cursing over the R/T all the way back to base, and when they had landed, the Oberfeldwebel gave the Leutnant a dressing down that he would never forget. Then, in front of the sweating Hartmann, Grislawski turned to his friend "Paule" Rossmann and said: "Oh man, this is too much! What a baby they have sent us! Just look at his face - like a cute little boy!" From then on, Grislawski never addressed Hartmann as anything but Bubi, "little boy".
Hartmann proved to be extremely individualistic, and von Bonin definitely knew what he was doing when he assigned a vigorous and harsh worker's son like Alfred Grislawski as his teacher. The men at Soldatskaya used to gather around the radio equipment and listen to the R/T communication with amusement when Grislawski and Hartmann were out on combat missions.
"Are you so anxious to die, Bubi?"
"I'm sorry, sir!"
"Don't you 'sir' me, look after your tail instead!"
"I'll nail you for this, Bubi!"
"I'm sorry!"
"Your mother will be sorry!"
From the book "Graf Grislawski: A Pair of Aces" by Christer Bergström
Alittle more info...
In August '43 the Russians were attacking in the area and Dieter Hrabak gave the orders to support Hans Rudel and his Stukas in a counter attack. Then things changed. The Russians began bombing German ground positions in support of their offensive and Hartmann and his flight of 8 fighters was sent to attack them. About 40 Yaks and Laggs were supporting another 40 or so Sturmoviks that were busy striking ground targets. Hartmann shot down 2 before his plane was hit by "something" and he was forced to make an emergency landing. As Soviet ground troops approached the plane, Hartmann faked that he was injured. The Soviet soldiers took him to their HQ and his acting won over the doctor there as well. They put him on a stretcher and packed him into the back of a captured German truck. Waiting for the opportune moment Hartmann jumped the single gaurd just as Stukas began an attack. He jumped out the back and ran like hell. He found a large field of giant sunflowers and tried to lose the pursuing soldiers who were all the while firing wildly in his direction. He made it to a small village occupied by Russians and decided to to go back where he had been and wait for nightfall.
Hartman's 109...
III./JG 52's commander, Major Hubertus von Bonin, placed Hartmann under Oberfeldwebel Grislawski's wings. The miner's son Alfred Grislawski found a particular pleasure in teaching this newcomer the name of the game. He made a few mock combats with Hartmann. This relieved Hartmann of some of his ambitious ideas, but Grislawski had to admit that although Hartmann had much to learn regarding combat tactics, he actually was a quite talented pilot.
The trouble started when they started flying combat missions together. Grislawski immediately noted that the newcomer was one of those who thought they were going to "shoot together a Knight's Cross" in no time. Hartmann barely had started to leave his place behind Grislawski's aircraft to direct his Bf 109 against an I-16, when his earphones seemed to explode: "You bloody idiot! What the hell do you think you're doing? I'm your leader! Get back in place or I'll shoot you down!" Grislawski kept cursing over the R/T all the way back to base, and when they had landed, the Oberfeldwebel gave the Leutnant a dressing down that he would never forget. Then, in front of the sweating Hartmann, Grislawski turned to his friend "Paule" Rossmann and said: "Oh man, this is too much! What a baby they have sent us! Just look at his face - like a cute little boy!" From then on, Grislawski never addressed Hartmann as anything but Bubi, "little boy".
Hartmann proved to be extremely individualistic, and von Bonin definitely knew what he was doing when he assigned a vigorous and harsh worker's son like Alfred Grislawski as his teacher. The men at Soldatskaya used to gather around the radio equipment and listen to the R/T communication with amusement when Grislawski and Hartmann were out on combat missions.
"Are you so anxious to die, Bubi?"
"I'm sorry, sir!"
"Don't you 'sir' me, look after your tail instead!"
"I'll nail you for this, Bubi!"
"I'm sorry!"
"Your mother will be sorry!"
From the book "Graf Grislawski: A Pair of Aces" by Christer Bergström
Alittle more info...
In August '43 the Russians were attacking in the area and Dieter Hrabak gave the orders to support Hans Rudel and his Stukas in a counter attack. Then things changed. The Russians began bombing German ground positions in support of their offensive and Hartmann and his flight of 8 fighters was sent to attack them. About 40 Yaks and Laggs were supporting another 40 or so Sturmoviks that were busy striking ground targets. Hartmann shot down 2 before his plane was hit by "something" and he was forced to make an emergency landing. As Soviet ground troops approached the plane, Hartmann faked that he was injured. The Soviet soldiers took him to their HQ and his acting won over the doctor there as well. They put him on a stretcher and packed him into the back of a captured German truck. Waiting for the opportune moment Hartmann jumped the single gaurd just as Stukas began an attack. He jumped out the back and ran like hell. He found a large field of giant sunflowers and tried to lose the pursuing soldiers who were all the while firing wildly in his direction. He made it to a small village occupied by Russians and decided to to go back where he had been and wait for nightfall.
Hartman's 109...
- Thread starter
- #24
lesofprimus
Brigadier General
As a side note....
Hartmann scored his 352 kills in 1456 missions...
Barkhorn scored his 301 kills in 1104 missions...
Rall scored his 275 kills in 621 missions...
Kittle scored his 267 kills in 563 missions...
Nowotney scored 250 kills in 442 missions...
Erich Rudorffer had 13 kills in 17 minutes....
Hans-Joachim Marseille had 17 kills in 1 day...
Kurt Welter, Highest Scoring JET Ace w/ 26 Kills (+4 prob kills)
Total of 63 Kills (in 93 missions, 56 of them night sorties)
And of course, something special for Lancaster Kicks Ass...
Heinz -Wolfgang Schnaufer, 121 kills, top German Night Fighter, claimed 9 Lancasters on 21 Feb 1945
Hartmann scored his 352 kills in 1456 missions...
Barkhorn scored his 301 kills in 1104 missions...
Rall scored his 275 kills in 621 missions...
Kittle scored his 267 kills in 563 missions...
Nowotney scored 250 kills in 442 missions...
Erich Rudorffer had 13 kills in 17 minutes....
Hans-Joachim Marseille had 17 kills in 1 day...
Kurt Welter, Highest Scoring JET Ace w/ 26 Kills (+4 prob kills)
Total of 63 Kills (in 93 missions, 56 of them night sorties)
And of course, something special for Lancaster Kicks Ass...
Heinz -Wolfgang Schnaufer, 121 kills, top German Night Fighter, claimed 9 Lancasters on 21 Feb 1945
- Thread starter
- #25
lesofprimus
Brigadier General
Some more info on Rudorffer...
On August 24, 1943 he shot down 5 Russian aircraft on the first mission of the day and followed that up with three more victories on the second mission. He scored seven victories in seven minutes on October 11, but his finest achievement occurred on November 6 when in the course of 17 minutes, thirteen Russian aircraft fell to his guns! Only Emil 'Bully' Lang, another Grunherzflieger, and Hans-Joachim Marseille rival Rudorffer's mastery at multiple scoring.
Rudorffer became known to Russian pilots as the 'fighter of Libau'. Returning from a sortie on October 28, 1944 and about to land, he spotted a huge formation of Il-2 'Sturmoviks'. He quickly aborted the landing and moved to engage the armada. In less than ten minutes, nine of the heavily armored Russian planes were shot down causing the rest to flee in panic. In anti-climatic fashion, he shot down a further two Russians in an afternoon sortie...
In all, Erich Rudorffer scored a total of 222 victories, placing him 7th on the all time list. This score did not come without a cost: Rudorffer flew over 1,000 missions, never took leave, was shot down 16 times, and 'hit the silk' 9 times! Of note are the 58 Il-2 Sturmoviks included in his 136 Eastern Front victories (all while flying the Fw 190) and the 10 4-engine bombers shot down in Defense of the Reich missions.
On August 24, 1943 he shot down 5 Russian aircraft on the first mission of the day and followed that up with three more victories on the second mission. He scored seven victories in seven minutes on October 11, but his finest achievement occurred on November 6 when in the course of 17 minutes, thirteen Russian aircraft fell to his guns! Only Emil 'Bully' Lang, another Grunherzflieger, and Hans-Joachim Marseille rival Rudorffer's mastery at multiple scoring.
Rudorffer became known to Russian pilots as the 'fighter of Libau'. Returning from a sortie on October 28, 1944 and about to land, he spotted a huge formation of Il-2 'Sturmoviks'. He quickly aborted the landing and moved to engage the armada. In less than ten minutes, nine of the heavily armored Russian planes were shot down causing the rest to flee in panic. In anti-climatic fashion, he shot down a further two Russians in an afternoon sortie...
In all, Erich Rudorffer scored a total of 222 victories, placing him 7th on the all time list. This score did not come without a cost: Rudorffer flew over 1,000 missions, never took leave, was shot down 16 times, and 'hit the silk' 9 times! Of note are the 58 Il-2 Sturmoviks included in his 136 Eastern Front victories (all while flying the Fw 190) and the 10 4-engine bombers shot down in Defense of the Reich missions.
the lancaster kicks ass
Major General
- 19,937
- Dec 20, 2003
that's a very impressive list and interview, he made downing that 262 so easy...............
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- #27
lesofprimus
Brigadier General
Hey Lanc, did u miss my Lancaster comment up above there???
Thought u might enjoy that... (wink)
Lightning Guy
Master Sergeant
- 2,511
- Apr 29, 2004
Schnaufer was something special no doubt. Flying at night was the most difficult of all environments during WWII and he scored more kills than any Allied day pilot and all but the most elite Axis pilots.
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- #29
lesofprimus
Brigadier General
There were some extremely extroidinary indiviuals during WWII...
And I love learning about them...
And I love learning about them...
the lancaster kicks ass
Major General
- 19,937
- Dec 20, 2003
to be honest (while i have a huge respect for the men that flew them) i profer to learn about the planes.................
The Jagdflieger Pips
Airman 1st Class
I'm going to say Erich Hartmann. He had an amazing amount of kills.
the lancaster kicks ass
Major General
- 19,937
- Dec 20, 2003
many against inexperienced pilots, makes you wander though, where did he put all the roundells and stars for each of the planes he shot down 
.............................
.............................- Thread starter
- #33
lesofprimus
Brigadier General
Alot of repainting on that rudder of his for sure...
And speakin of which, I cannot find a pic of Hartmanns tail with kills on it...
Anyone got one???
And speakin of which, I cannot find a pic of Hartmanns tail with kills on it...
Anyone got one???
The Jagdflieger Pips
Airman 1st Class
lesofprimus said:
I have an illustration in a book of the tail of his Me-109 F-4, I might be able to scan it if you're interested. It's only the tail, and he looks to have had only 107 victores. Small picture, too.
- Thread starter
- #35
lesofprimus
Brigadier General
Not lookin for an illustration, a regular pic... I dont even recall seeing one...
The Jagdflieger Pips
Airman 1st Class
I actually thought I'd seen an actual one somewhere. Or that might have been a different pilot. 
- Thread starter
- #37
lesofprimus
Brigadier General
I find it hard to believe that such a pic isnt readily shown on the internet, or in books... What an accomplishment, even against crap ass Russian pilots... (most of em)...
The Jagdflieger Pips
Airman 1st Class
lesofprimus said:
Agreed.
Lightning Guy
Master Sergeant
- 2,511
- Apr 29, 2004
The kill totals for the Luftwaffe ran so high that they had to do something to get them all in. Often, when a special number like 100 had been reached, the tail would be painted over the total at the time (say 100) would be painted with decortations (like a wreath) at the top of the tail, and then single kills signs would be added from there.
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