The Greatest Fighter Pilot of WWII... Finalized....

[drgondog]

earlier I advocated Mayer and Bar but would never argue against Barkhorn or several others in the list.

When I first saw the list the several Japanese aces (nishizawa and sakai) that fought (and survived) all the way, often with a/c that were less capable were also clear candidates. Those two went a long way proving it's the guy not the a/c - just like Foss, etc

No way to objectively pick a 'best' from my perspective as many 'bests' were KIA by 'lesser skilled' pilots? so, best 'who didn't make it' versus 'best who did' might also be a category

 

[domin323]

Hello everyone!!!

I would like to mention about Witold Urbanowicz. He was flying in BoB (303 squadron) and later in China (Flying Tigers). He scored 28 kills.
On P-40 fought against 6 zeros once , shot down two of them.

 

[lesofprimus]

While moments of individual heroism are great points to a truly gifted pilot, to overlook what the Luftwaffe Aces went through, for as long as they did; to rack up 100's of kills on different fronts, is beyond the scope of what a guy with 28 or 40 or even 60 kills can hope to achieve...

Heinz Baer, with 132 votes so far ranking him 3rd, is in my opinion the greatest ever.... Marseille most likely had it in the bag if it werent for the damn chute, and Hartmanns inferior opponents detracts from his whoppin unconfirmed score...

 

[drgondog]

While moments of individual heroism are great points to a truly gifted pilot, to overlook what the Luftwaffe Aces went through, for as long as they did; to rack up 100's of kills on different fronts, is beyond the scope of what a guy with 28 or 40 or even 60 kills can hope to achieve...

Heinz Baer, with 132 votes so far ranking him 3rd, is in my opinion the greatest ever.... Marseille most likely had it in the bag if it werent for the damn chute, and Hartmanns inferior opponents detracts from his whoppin unconfirmed score...

Baer (Bar with the funny 'a') is my personal choice. I don't know how I would ever be totally objective about this discussion which is why I didn't have a lot of posts on it..

SUBJECTIVELY, the guys that confronted quality and quantity and thrived have to be separated and put in one bucket that says 'look here first'.. the second bucket is the pot with aces having the highest totals against tough to very tough opposition. IF the second bucket has a mix of opposition, look at the totals against the tough opposition and compare against the first

Combine the top guys with the top opposition and look at the 'epoch' in which they scored. Would Marseille have scored as fast as he did battling RAF and USAAF in equal quality fighters in greater numbers? as Egon Mayer, Bar, etc?

That is where my head is on this - and I 'flung' a dart at the top three for me and it was Bar...with deepest respect to Rall, Barkhorn and Hartmann.

 

[lesofprimus]

Agreed, as we usually do....

 

[Burmese Bandit]

My vote...it was close, as things are always with these type of polls, is for Marseille.

Why?

All the pilots on this list were great pilots and great shots, but Marseille was IMHO the greatest of all due to his special talent: deflection shooting. Hartman was a superlative ambush pilot, with great tactical awareness. But HJM was that AND he had a laser rangefinder in his eyes and a ballistics computer in his brain!

 

[kool kitty89]

We've had some more recent threads on this btw: http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/news/vote-best-pilot-poll-12724.html

http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/aviation/best-wwii-fighter-pilot-12686.html
http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/aviation/best-ww2-fighter-pilot-poll-round-2-a-12997.html

 

[Burmese Bandit]

Will go there. Thanks...

 

[Timppa]

I still would have voted Gregory Boyington.
Boyington died on Jan. 11, 1988, and is buried in Arlington National Cemetery. In summing up his own life, he wrote at the end of his memoir, "If this story were to have a moral, then I would say, 'Just name a hero and I'll prove he's a bum.'"

 

[Amsel]

Great antecdote!

 

[Yerger]

Among Luft aces for pure skill it's generally agreed Rall was best. If not injured for a year would probably have beat Hartmann.

in career aspects other than flight skills, awards, etc, then combining all, Galland has always been my favorite Luft pilot. Happy to have had the chance to meet and speak with him several times.

Best night ace and leader, Werner Streib

and most overlooked of the higher decorated and scroring Luft aces: Hermann Graf

 

[Von Frag]

I dunno, Joe Foss is not on the list as well as some others at Guadalcanal. What he and others did with what they had was amazing. They took on the best the IJN had and at that time they were still VERY good. If we flew our pilots into the ground like the Luftwaffe did, I'm sure some of them would have reached triple digits as well. I recall in another thread that Robert Johnson while in combat got his kills faster than most other aces in their respective time frames.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

And he won the poll

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Heinz Bär was a truly amazing pilot. While is not my favorite (that title does go to Hartmann for certain reasons), I do think he was the greatest pilot of WW2.

 

[Amsel]

I agree that Heinz Bär might have been the best. He was a great pilot and leader as well. I don't know how any of those German aces survived the war. Bär led his men very well when he was with JG1 against overwhelming odds. He also wasn't afraid to argue with the system, making him unpopular with Goerring.

The interesting thing is only 79 of his victories were on the eastern front. All the rest of his victories were against British and American aircraft and pilots. Including 16 in a 262 making him a jet ace as well. That really makes him stand out in my mind.

It is hard to look at just score and figure out the greatest though. There are many pilots who did not fly as many missions as Bär orHartmann, but had much higher kill ratios, such as Wilhelm Batz, Gunther Rall and Otto Kittel, who if kill ratio to kills and missions flown are taken into consideration; score very high. Much higher then Hartmann or Bär.

 

[Yerger]

I agree that Heinz Bär might have been the best. He was a great pilot and leader as well. I don't know how any of those German aces survived the war. Bär led his men very well when he was with JG1 against overwhelming odds. He also wasn't afraid to argue with the system, making him unpopular with Goerring.

The interesting thing is only 79 of his victories were on the eastern front. All the rest of his victories were against British and American aircraft and pilots. Including 16 in a 262 making him a jet ace as well. That really makes him stand out in my mind.

It is hard to look at just score and figure out the greatest though. There are many pilots who did not fly as many missions as Bär orHartmann, but had much higher kill ratios, such as Wilhelm Batz, Gunther Rall and Otto Kittel, who if kill ratio to kills and missions flown are taken into consideration; score very high. Much higher then Hartmann or Bär.

That ratio is why I voted for Rall

 

[drgondog]

That ratio is why I voted for Rall

Rall is one of my favorite pilots along with Olds.

Amsel made the right observation abour Baer however. He fought, scored and survived the war against top notch adversaries throughout his caree, as well as B-17s and B-24s with many opportunities for the 'golden B B".

So many Experten scored big in the East and died in the West - but not Baer. Given that Rall was whacked out for rest of the war within a month of Western Ops, one can only speculate on the fate of Hartmann and Barkhorn had they come to the Battle of Germany at the same time. Great pilots but would have faced a pretty rough war in May 1944 over Germany.

 

[carbonlifeform]

I gotta say Adolph Galland. Not just because of his kill record but because of the kind of person he was. During a war and belonging to a nation that had a lot of barbarity to it, Galland had class. As a general in the LW, when downed allied pilots were brought to his HQ, there was no interrogation. Galland broke out his finest drink, made them as comfortable as possible, and he and the pilot would talk about flying. He figured the pilot was going to be in for a rough enough time AFTERwards. Then again, I may be biased having had the opportnity of meeting him many years ago, and despite the obvious aristocracy in his blood, he was very approachable and answered my many questions.

 

[Clay_Allison]

Eino Ilmari Juutilainen - 94 Kills Flying for Finland in a worn out Bf109.

 

[gepp]

i had to choose Marseille is one of the best fighter pilots of all time his abilities were unique and unmatched in the skys.
shame that Australian ace clive "killer"caldwell wasn't on the poll he shot down german and jap fighters.
great poll anyways.

Gepp