The Iraq War

[plan_D]

I've become infinitely more interested in what has been going on Iraq after reading a great book called "Sniper One" by Sgt. Dan Mills. If anyone believes that those in Southern Iraq had it easy, then you need to read this book. Or if you want to find out how the Coalition are doing out there read this book.

As in the book, I'm not interested in the politics of the war... that was sorted out for me in 2003... I agreed with the war, end of. Within reason (obviously operations still continue) I want to know more as to whats going on. I obviously respect people who have been there ... so I don't expect anything being rehashed that doesn't need to be.

But really... how do people think the Coalition ground forces are faring against the insurgency ? 'cos I think they're doing pretty damn good! For example, the battle group in Al Amarah got 249 confirmed kills in one month ... with one injury to them.

I continue to read the book in astonishment as the bravery of the lads is amazing (by the way, Dan Mills was in Al Amarah in 2004 - when all the sh*t in Najaf was kicking off) - the scenes described in that book make Black Hawk Down (Battle of Mogadishu) look like a cake-walk (but we all know it wasn't).

For clarification, Sgt. Dan Mills was the platoon leader of Sniper Platoon in Y (Support) Company of Princes of Wales Royal Regiment. They operated with L96s, SA80 Mk.IIs and Minimes. I've just read up to a bit when their compound is under siege ... and they've been supplied with a Royal Marine spotter and a 'Royal Marine' (... it doesn't say what unit 'Buzz' is from, obviously) sniper with a U.S .50 cal Barret rifle...nicknamed the 'Beast' by Sniper Platoon ... gave the Iraqi f*cks a surprise 'cos they worked out the range of the L96 (1,000 m effective)

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

From my experience of having served in Iraq we are kicking there ass but it is a fight we can not win.

Let me say that differently. We can not win it the way we are fighting it now. You do not know who the enemy is and for every insurgent you take out another 10 to 15 stand up.

Can this war be won? Yes but not with the current tactics being employed.

 

[Erich]

Chris knowing full well what has been going on over there, it cannot be won unless we are assisted by the rest of the world, but sadly the wimps of the modern nations will not voice that in approval. In time this will explode all over the mid-east, causing us to be ever weaker as a nation with more disgruntled politicians making the rules and regulations for our troops, they did it in Nam and they have been doing it here and you know what I am talking of.

As plan has read I pray for 1 relative which is in the same job league behind the front lines doing his duty against those dis-shelved bastar*s

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

The war can not be won with the help of Arabs my friend.

 

[Erich]

that is a fact, even with the ones we have they have their own personal adjenda and that is going to come down on us. I see it quite futile to even train up a new established Iraqi army.......worthless

what I mean is the rest of Europe and the Asians, please exclude the Chinese

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I dont know Erich, I have different feelings about Europe and Iraq. There are certain reasonings behind some European countries not helping out and frankly I can understand why some of these European Countries did not help out.

Whether they are in Iraq or not will not change a thing with the outcome of this war.

Victory can only happen with a change in tactics and the Arabs and mostly the Iraqis have to stand up and police themselves.

 

[Erich]

man you know how much I want to agree with your statements...........BUT.........I can trust the mideast mindset as about as far as I can hit them with a sniper rifle round right between their f***in eyes

 

[ToughOmbre]

Victory can only happen with a change in tactics and the Arabs and mostly the Iraqis have to stand up and police themselves.

Couldn't agree more. The Iraqi people are the key to victory. There have been some promising signs during the surge, I hope it can be sustained. Not sure though.

TO

 

[Erich]

again I would like to agree T.O. but if we leave and when, will the Iraqi D.F. be able to take on it's neighbors Iran and Syria, they are waiting like wolves though we are watching them closely

 

[ToughOmbre]

Erich,

I don't think we'll be leaving anytime soon, regardless of who occupies the WH in 2009. So it's doubtful that the Iraqi security forces will have to deal with Syria and/or Iran. We didn't let Saddam keep Kuwait, I don't think we'll let Iran have it's way in the ME. It's certainly a messy situation, no thanks to us.

TO

 

[Erich]

well you're right about us leaving the Mid-E I tried to be subtle in my message tones ......... both syria and the other goofs are flaunchin at the bit hoping the witch of Endor wins so she can pull us out asap. rest assured if we get troops in iran then they will be in syria as it will heat up, I do prefer Israel to bitch slap that silly state senseless

E ♫ ♪

 

[plan_D]

Well, the troops in Al Amarah found how easy it was for the entire Iraqi population to turn against them after the mosque in Najaf was hit by a stray artillery shell ... and it soon became a holy war - that's when things were ugly ten times over...the numbers were immense. But the feeling in the book was that they were winning militarily at times when the gloves were taken off (the ROE were ...'altered' for this regiment by an excellent Col., the ROE seem to be up for interpretation.) ... the only problem was that the lads didn't have the ammo !

But then that gives me the impression that it's impossible to succeed at the moment without killing them all !

My thoughts on the British ability have been falling in the past few years, but f*ck our lads are still brave, smart and deadly to anyone.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Marc you are correct that our military forces over there are winning on the battle field the problem is that for every battle won another 100 possible enemies rise up.

It is kind of like a vicious circle or we take one step foward and 2 steps back.

 

[Freebird]

What's your take on what should be done Chris? And I mean other than "giving the Iraqi's time to build a stable government". I don't have alot of confidence in that happening this century. Assuming that they can't get their act together (?) whats the "change in tactics" or the Plan "B" in your mind?

 

[wilbur1]

The problem lies with religion, who can say that the belief of one is stronger than the other. I feel that if we are fighting a war then act like it instead of trying to pull another Vietnam, dont get me wrong OUR soldiers<the world> are doing the best ive everseen or heard of, But why are we holding back?

 

[Freebird]

The problem lies with religion, who can say that the belief of one is stronger than the other. I feel that if we are fighting a war then act like it instead of trying to pull another Vietnam, dont get me wrong OUR soldiers<the world> are doing the best ive everseen or heard of, But why are we holding back?

Because if you "don't hold back" ie loosen the ROE's you run a greater risk of civilians getting hit, which defeats the purpose to begin with. If the population sees the US soldiers as trigger happy occupiers, however wrong that may be in reality, it becomes more difficult to do the mission. It's no surprise that every mistake become an "atrocity" on Al-Jazeera.

 

[Konigstiger205]

The wonders of propaganda...one thing is clear...the iraqi people like most of you said need to police themselves because if they are not capable of taking care of their own country then all this effort and sacrificed lives have been in vain...My country supports the U.S. troops and we have troops in Iraq and Afghanistan but our people is getting tired of so many deaths specially when our military is so poor and maintaining the troops there costs.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

What's your take on what should be done Chris? And I mean other than "giving the Iraqi's time to build a stable government". I don't have alot of confidence in that happening this century. Assuming that they can't get their act together (?) whats the "change in tactics" or the Plan "B" in your mind?

I think the hands of our soldiers are tied behind there backs (this is just my observation of having served there) and we should untie there hands.

Also we need to put more pressure on the Arabs to step up and do something.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Because if you "don't hold back" ie loosen the ROE's you run a greater risk of civilians getting hit, which defeats the purpose to begin with. If the population sees the US soldiers as trigger happy occupiers, however wrong that may be in reality, it becomes more difficult to do the mission. It's no surprise that every mistake become an "atrocity" on Al-Jazeera.

The problem is who is a civilian and who is an insurgent? We never knew down there....

 

[plan_D]

That's the feeling I was getting from the book; there were unarmed Iraqis target spotting for the mortar crews that were out of sight. Initially the snipers could not engage these obvious spotters until the officer commanding was given R R and the new man declared these spotters as hostile because they pose a threat to safety even if they were unarmed... as I said, the ROE are up for interpretation.

I assume the problem with the Iraqi police and 'military' is the same all over Iraq. During the ceasefire [2004] it was decided to use Iraqi military to guard the CIMIC compound in Al Amarah ... they were always late, and would leave the gate unguarded for hours ... or just go home early. The police were even worse ... they'd allow many get away with anything, many were drunk on duty, and a lot were on the insurgents side. Sgt. Mills had a officer of the law in Iraq point his AK at him ... but he quickly panicked and claimed it was a joke when the snipers put their SA80s in the sh*t bags face.