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Unfortunately that story, while correct in some parts, perpetuates some of the anti-P-38 myths.
Don't know for sure if this is true but I have read several times that the p38s continued to be teathered to the bombers on many missions for some time after the p47s and 51s were freed up to fly ahead of the bomber streems to break up German formations.
If this is true it would seem to account for some of the shortage of kills by p38s on early 44 missions. The pre L model p38s certainly had there shortcomings when it came to high altitude combat but certainly tactics like these didn't help matters.
It seems like of all the aircraft that needed to be able to range out ahead of the bomber streems to be effective it would be the p38 even more than other aircraft. That is to say being teathered to the bombers in an aircraft with dive limitations while German aircraft made firering passes then dive away is a non starter as far as effectiveness.
The P-47 "clean" had roughly double the range of a Spitfire or 109 (also clean), it just wasn't enough to escort long range bombers.
But nobody had fighter that would escort a B-17 to it's max radius in 1942 or early 1943.
Con't:
If my memory serves in the book " Americas hundred thousand" it lists that combat radius for the p47d 15 with 300 gallons external fuel as 570 miles so it would be just a few miles short of the p51s line on the map.Con't:
I suspect the August 1943 range is for the P-47 with a single 75 US gal belly tank. I wish this chart included range updates for the larger tanks, as when the P-47D-15 RE became available.
If my memory serves in the book " Americas hundred thousand" it lists that combat radius for the p47d 15 with 300 gallons external fuel as 570 miles so it would be just a few miles short of the p51s line on the map.
Yes would be nice to know the specifics, I.E. which drop tanks when and of how many gallons.
Cheers,
Biff
Thanks for posting that. Which book did you draw that info from?<draws the book>
With 370 gals of internal fuel, plus 2x150 gal drop tanks, the 'bubble top' P-47D is supposed to have 600 miles of radius. Flight at 25000 ft, at 210 mph indicated air speed (~310 mph true air speed at that altitude, depending on temperature). Includes allowance for warm-up, take off, climb to 25000 ft, 5 min combat on WEP, 15 min combat on military power, and 30 min reserve. 305 gals internal + 2x150 gals ('razoback' P-47D) = 425 miles radius.
P-5B to K: 700 miles, with fuselage tank installed and 2x75 gal tanks, under same conditions.
<puts the book away, goes for the younger daughter to kindergarten>
I went and dragged out " Americas hundred thousand" and the graph/ text are a little unclear as to which sub model D it is referring to with which range. In the text it just references "early" and "late" p47 Ds. On a graph just above the range table the early p47s are grouped into p47c to p47d-22 and later p47s into p47d-23 to p47 d-40.
The range.table then lists two combat radius for the p47d. The first is on 370 gal internal fuel only and is 225 miles. The 2nd is with 370 gallons internal and 300 external and is actually listed as 670 miles.
I would note that the aproxamitly 80% increase in fuel is yielding about a 150% increase in combat radius (never noticed this discrepancy before)according to this table so something doesn't seem right here. Perhaps some of the members with more knowledge than I could shed some additional light on this.
The 670 mile combat radius with 370 gallons internal and 300 external is specified with mission profile of 5min fuel for warm up and take off, climb to 25,000 feet,cruise at 25,000 feet, drop external tanks, 5 min at combat power, cruise back at 25,000 feet, and fuel reserves 30 min at minimum cruise power.It has to do with the difference between "range" ( taking off and flying in a straight line and at perhaps a lower than operational height and then landing**)
and "Radius" which involves not only taking off and climbing to (probably a higher) altitude but a combat allowance of 15-20 minutes at perhaps double the fuel per minute of cruising, then the flight back and 20 minutes to one hour of reserve depending on which air force (US NAVY wanted one hour to find and land on the carrier). The part Tomo left out was that the drop tanks would be let go at the start of combat so the return flight is made on the internal fuel only after you take out the the fuel used for take-off and the combat allowance and allow for finding and airfield after you get back to England (or where ever).
** Some "ranges" are calculated by magically levitating the plane to 5,000 or 10,000ft and figuring how far it could fly on the available fuel, no allowance made for starting, warm up and take-off and climb to cruising height and no reserve at the end.
I went and dragged out " Americas hundred thousand" and the graph/ text are a little unclear as to which sub model D it is referring to with which range. In the text it just references "early" and "late" p47 Ds. On a graph just above the range table the early p47s are grouped into p47c to p47d-22 and later p47s into p47d-23 to p47 d-40.
The range.table then lists two combat radius for the p47d. The first is on 370 gal internal fuel only and is 225 miles. The 2nd is with 370 gallons internal and 300 external and is actually listed as 670 miles.
I would note that the aproxamitly 80% increase in fuel is yielding about a 150% increase in combat radius (never noticed this discrepancy before)according to this table so something doesn't seem right here. Perhaps some of the members with more knowledge than I could shed some additional light on this.
Thanks for posting that. Which book did you draw that info from?
Resp:The bigger main tank, 270 gals, was installed on the P-47D-25 and later A/C, including the -M and -N. Together with reserve tank, it meant 370 gals in the fuselage (= the only internal fuel on those -Ds and all -Ms). Earier -Ds, all -Cs and -Bs have had 205 gals in the main tank.
Major increase of range/radius due to small addition of fuel is to be expected - extra 65 gals will net a good flying distance in cruise setting. Eg. an extra ~40 min of flight at 25000 ft with P-47's engine still making healthy ~1150 HP.
From "America's hundred thousand".
Resp:
Anyone have any dates when the first 'wet wing' P-47D-15s arrived in the ETO? Also, just a 'note' on range//combat radius; I know that around the 3rd quarter of 1943, either the 56th or 78th FG flew to bases closer to the west coast of England to refuel, just to get 10 min or so more flying time.
Ok thanks. I see the numbers you cited in the fuel systems section. I was just looking at graph/ table 34 which lists the total internal fuel capacity as 370 gal in both the internal fuel only combat radius example (225 miles)and the with 300 external gal of fuel example(670 miles). However the resulting range increase in the with external tanks example seems to iclude what would be resulting from the extra 65 gal internal in the later models without that being listed on the graph.The bigger main tank, 270 gals, was installed on the P-47D-25 and later A/C, including the -M and -N. Together with reserve tank, it meant 370 gals in the fuselage (= the only internal fuel on those -Ds and all -Ms). Earier -Ds, all -Cs and -Bs have had 205 gals in the main tank.
Major increase of range/radius due to small addition of fuel is to be expected - extra 65 gals will net a good flying distance in cruise setting. Eg. an extra ~40 min of flight at 25000 ft with P-47's engine still making healthy ~1150 HP.
From "America's hundred thousand".