The truth is stranger than fiction: WW2 facts that you would call BS if seen on a movie...

[ktank]

The story of Winkle Brown would make a completely unbelievable movie with a "whats that stuff about him speaking to Goering" comment.

His book "Wings on my Sleeve" has umpteen bizarre stories, but my favourite is him immediately after VE day flying around Luftwaffe airfields with a couple of German mechanics inspecting and test-flying Luftwaffe aircraft, including the only Allied "hot start" in an Me163. That section reads like a cross between James Bond and Gravity's Rainbow!

 

[pbehn]

His book "Wings on my Sleeve" has umpteen bizarre stories, but my favourite is him immediately after VE day flying around Luftwaffe airfields with a couple of German mechanics inspecting and test-flying Luftwaffe aircraft, including the only Allied "hot start" in an Me163. That section reads like a cross between James Bond and Gravity's Rainbow!

The whole thing about his life is just a silly hammed up bio pic of someone that didn't actually do all that stuff but did. Meeting Udet pre war, becoming a fighter pilot, shoot down a couple of Condors then getting your ship sunk, flying this and that setting all sorts of records and firsts which almost no one else survived and somehow he ended up talking to people and flying planes that in numbers will never be equalled.

 

[ktank]

It is late and I am bored, I will begin, feel free to post you own...

- Aggressively anti-communist German leader writes book in which he states his hatred for communism and declares his intention to colonize and, at the very least, displace if not get rid of the population of the nearby communist country... once he assumes power, he signs a non-aggression treaty with said neighbor and proceed to amicably divide eastern Europe like a cake among themselves.

All the hallmarks of an absurd what if... save for the fact that it happened.

Then late in the war, with the Red Army running rampant in the East, concentrates on trying to force the Western Allies to abandon unconditional surrender and join him to take on the Soviets. All it does is slow down the advance in the West, while the forces used in forlorn offensives (eg Ardennes Offensive) mean resistance in the East is reduced. Result - half of Europe, including a large part of Germany, ends up under communist rule. If he'd done nothing the Western Allies could have occupied Germany at least instead.

As I once saw written - Hitler was the most complete failure of the 20th century.

 

[pinehilljoe]

A force of 27 ships could defeat an enemy with over 150 ships. (If Midway wasnt mentioned earlier)

 

[TheMadPenguin]

A force of 27 ships could defeat an enemy with over 150 ships. (If Midway wasnt mentioned earlier)

Because of their dispersal and radio silence, it was more a case of 27 ships against 10 fleets of 15 ships, most of which were not involved in the action.
(note this is NOT an assessment of the actual dispositions of the IJN, but the actual effect of the ships of the IJN ...)

 

[swampyankee]

Then late in the war, with the Red Army running rampant in the East, concentrates on trying to force the Western Allies to abandon unconditional surrender and join him to take on the Soviets. All it does is slow down the advance in the West, while the forces used in forlorn offensives (eg Ardennes Offensive) mean resistance in the East is reduced. Result - half of Europe, including a large part of Germany, ends up under communist rule. If he'd done nothing the Western Allies could have occupied Germany at least instead.

As I once saw written - Hitler was the most complete failure of the 20th century.

Which country was going to occupy where was decided by the allied leaders at a conference, not the stop lines of the armies. Had Hitler ended the war earlier by accepting surrender terms, there would have been a lot less suffering by the German people. Remember, instead of surrendering, he took the coward's way out. Too bad the German people didn't get to drag him through the streets and hang him from a lamp post.

 

[MIflyer]

On occasion in the Battle of Britain RAF and German fighter pilots were on the same HF radio frequency and could talk to each other if they so desired.

Also on one day in the BoB all available RAF fighters were committed, and a WWI RAF fighter pilot, a Station Commander, was told there was a raid coming to attack his airfield and there was nothing to stop it. He jumped in his Mk1 Hurricane and headed for the German force. As it turned out, the German He-111 force, after getting thier arses shot off day after day, failed to rendezvous with its fighter escorts (unlike the RAF, the German fighters were never able to talk to their bombers) and were flying along fearfully, just knowing they were going to get clobbered big time. When the lone Hurricane attacked them, they said, "We knew it! The RAF fighters are here!", jettisoned their bombs and ran for home.

 

[Dinger]

The whole thing about his life is just a silly hammed up bio pic of someone that didn't actually do all that stuff but did. Meeting Udet pre war, becoming a fighter pilot, shoot down a couple of Condors then getting your ship sunk, flying this and that setting all sorts of records and firsts which almost no one else survived and somehow he ended up talking to people and flying planes that in numbers will never be equalled.

One anecdote about Winkle Brown you will not find in his own autobiography, or any of his other books was recorded in "Haul Taut and Belay" the autobiography of Vice-Admiral Sir Donald Gibson. - He was one of the fighter pilots, along with Winkle Brown, flying Wildcats from HMS Audacity during its amazing actions on the Gibraltar convoys. When the carrier was sunk by U-boat they were both picked up by the from rafts by HMS Convolvulus. - It just Illustrates Winkles amazing good luck.... " We disembarked at the Liver Building in Liverpool where Winkle Brown, in his best uniform, saved, I believe, from a suitcase floating in the water near HMS Convolvulus, was cheered by the enthusiastic population. We, dressed by the Shipwrecked Mariners' Society in the same clothing as the German prisoners who were also disembarking, were stoned by equally enthusiastic small boys. "

 

[TheMadPenguin]

Battle for Castle Itter - Wikipedia
German regular troops, American regular troops, French political prisoners & a few others TEAMED UP and fought side by side against the SS who sought to kill all the prisoners.

 

[nuuumannn]

The Soviet Union got beaten by the Finns.
Britain became bankrupt and lost hold over the largest empire the world had ever seen.
De Havilland fitted a gun turret to the Mosquito.
The commander of a Kriegsmarine warship recommended an award for gallantry for a British destroyer captain bent on ramming his ship.
Operation Mincemeat, oh wait, that was a movie...
A single Luftwaffe bomber sank two Kriegsmarine destroyers in one bombing run.
The Mark 14 torpedo.
The biography of Sidney Cotton, now that would make a great movie.
And his German counterpart Theodore Rohweil, who basically did a Sidney Cotton before Cotton thought of it and had state sponsoring and the use of any advanced aeroplanes he wanted.
The Final Solution - gulp.

 

[GrauGeist]

Grant, you forgot the airship that attacked a submarine...

 

[GrauGeist]

Oh yeah - and aircraft carriers made of sawdust and ice.

 

[nuuumannn]

Oh yeah - and aircraft carriers made of sawdust and ice.

Yess! And aircraft with no undercarriage landing on rubber mats aboard them!

 

[nuuumannn]

Grant, you forgot the airship that attacked a submarine...

That's soooo 1918. The rigid R.29 did it and disabled UB 115, which was finished off by a destroyer.

 

[pinehilljoe]

Juan Pujol García or Agent Garbo, and his group of fictional agents that fooled the Abwehr

 

[swampyankee]

Grant, you forgot the airship that attacked a submarine...

The USN used blimps into the 1950s. They were quite successful as convoy escorts. See Navy's Lighter-Than-Air Experience Monograph

I'm sure there was more than one airship attacking a submarine.

 

[Deleted member 68059]

SOE planting news stories in the press saying Udet AND Rommell committed suicide BEFORE the date on which they actually DID.

E.g. Udet.

(Newspaper date 30th July 1941, actual death 17th November 1941).

This was discovered by Lee Richards, a UK researcher who I`ve met who specialises in black propoganda research. Absolutely unbelievable, and
if I didnt know Lee personally I would have said "you`ve just photoshopped that newspaper".

Lee says this was part of a plan to create discord about the inner harmony of the Nazi inner-circle. The fact both actually came to pass is
totally bonkers.

PsyWar.Org - Underground Propaganda against Nazi Germany - A talk by Lee Richards, May 2014

 

[swampyankee]

Didn't Churchill say that in wartime, the truth needs a bodyguard of lies?

 

[GrauGeist]

The incident I referred to, was the action between USN K-74 and U-134 - where the airship dove out of the clouds to an altitude of 250 feet and made a bombing/strafing pass on the Sub.
The U-boat shot down K-74, but not before being damaged itself.
All airship members survived the downing, but one crewman died by shark attack just as they were being rescued, the Sub escaped only to be caught on the surface and sunk by an RAF bomber a few days later as it was trying to return to Europe for repairs.

 

[swampyankee]

The incident I referred to, was the action between USN K-74 and U-134 - where the airship dove out of the clouds to an altitude of 250 feet and made a bombing/strafing pass on the Sub.
The U-boat shot down K-74, but not before being damaged itself.
All airship members survived the downing, but one crewman died by shark attack just as they were being rescued, the Sub escaped only to be caught on the surface and sunk by an RAF bomber a few days later as it was trying to return to Europe for repairs.

Blimps were, reportedly, quite effective ASW platforms. Sometimes, I think LTA were prematurely removed from service, although they were, apparently, very expensive to operate, especially in that large numbers of people were needed for ground handling.