THIS HAS MADE MY FREAKIN' YEAR

[MIflyer]

In the latest news update this morning, one of the reasons it took a while to find him is, "When he got lost and heard strangers calling for him, he got scared and hid."

We had an F-105F pilot do the same thing, back in 1977. When his Thud caught fire and he had to punch out near Savannah, GA, at first he hid his chute and took cover, until he realized that the locals probably were friendly.

 

[gumbyk]

Remember we tend to judge ourselves by our best intentions and most virtuous acts but we will be judged by our last worst act.

Easy to throw philosophical words around when you've got no experience. I have friends who very nearly lost a child in a pool drowning, and trust me, they didn't judge themselves by their best intentions. There will be no-one judging this mother harder than she is judging herself.

 

[michael rauls]

Geo, not so, I have stated in every post that I am VERY happy that things worked out well for this young man. His survival was questionable to say the least. That all turned out well and he suffered no permanent injury is cause for a celebration.
What I question and what I hope the legal authorities will question are the negligent actions of the adult who was supposed to insure the safety of her child.
I also questuin the veracity of her/their story. I'm sure that the major details are correct but after the "Oh Shit" moment when you realize that the authorities are being called in the rationalization begin in the attempt to ameliorate guilt. "No my hand isn't in the Cookie Jar I was looking for the paper towels"
In addition were I the child's father I'd be in court terminating her visitation rights to supervised court visits only.


Not at all. Her actions are prima facie neglect, which only, by sheer happenstance did not end in tragedy. If you never render moral judgment there is no moral difference between Mother Teresa and Adolph Hitler. You must judge when the conduct violates a fundamental core ethical value and certainly the safety and well-being of an innocent child qualifies.


Indeed but in your case how long did it take you to realize your child was gone? 10 seconds? 1 minute? 10 minutes? Try as you might, you won't be a saint but that doesn't give you any free swings. You are accountable for every choice/action you make/take. Remember we tend to judge ourselves by our best intentions and most virtuous acts but we will be judged by our last worst act.

It took us about 5 seconds to realize we'd lost track of them and another probably 15 seconds to find them. Longest 15 seconds of my life by the way.
While I agree with you that good intentions don't change material outcomes( at least I think that's part of the point your making) I would respectfully disagree that people can't be judged, at least in large respect, by there intentions. When it comes to the disposition of ones soul to use religious parlants or just who we are and who we will for always have been to put it in a more secular manner our intentions are everything. Imho.

 

[mikewint]

It took us about 5 seconds to realize we'd lost track of them

Exactly my point, your focus was on the safety and well-being of your child. Your focus wandered for a short time and yes the little buggers can move very fast, but in a very short period of time your focus returned to its main job as a parent.

our intentions are everything.

Lord Love a Duck now you've pushed one of my buttons:
Many of the horrors of the twentieth century were supported by people with good intentions, so I pray every day for God to save us from the virtuous, good intentioned people who mean us well. Much of the evil in this world is done by people with good intentions. Beyond any doubt the most terrible things in this world are done by people who think, genuinely think, that they're doing it for the best. People are always meaning well and that's often the problem, because there are good deeds and then there are good intentions and they are as far apart as Heaven and Hell. No one would remember the Good Samaritan if he'd only had good intentions.

The first (and biggest) issue I have with intentions is how often good intentions go bad. And a really common reason they go bad is because we, as individuals, have individual wants and needs that are different from one another. How you manifest your good intentions and how I manifest mine are likely different, and how the object of our intentions receives them will likely be just as different. We often treat others how we want to be treated, instead of how they want to be treated.

This is especially true when there is a cultural divide as in the Mid-East. What is good or nice or helpful in one culture is not necessarily good or nice or helpful in another culture. We cannot assume that everything that results from our good intentions will be positive. Scientists frequently refer to the "the Law of Unintended Consequences." We should never underestimate the power of unintended negative consequences.

So as I originally posted: The Road to Hell is Paved with Good Intentions. Few individuals have genuinely bad intentions. This is why I say that most of the problems in the world are caused by good intentions. Now their intentions may not seem good to us, but they seem good to the one taking the action. Good intentions alone are not enough to make our actions moral.

All of us justify our actions to ourselves. Hitler, the modern symbol of ultimate evil, had good intentions, as did his followers. Otherwise, he would not have been able to convince intelligent, educated, enlightened Europeans that the world would be a better place without Jews and other impure people like homosexuals, Gypsies, blacks and intellectually deficient people. However, his good intentions spawned the most horrific genocidal crusade in human history.

Good Intentions and Unintended Consequences
During the Middle Ages and afterwards, well-intentioned witch hunters in Europe and America burned tens of thousands of women alive at the stake in the hope of ending epidemics, and they instilled paranoia in the populace, for anyone could be suspected of being a witch, a consorter with witches or a witches Familiar, a cat in most cases. The anti-witch pogroms also lead to the killing of tens of thousands of cats, which exacerbated the problem of the plague. Without cats to act as their predators, little kept the rat population in check and rats harbored fleas and the fleas carried the Plague bacteria. People in Europe continued to kill cats for another 300 years and remained vulnerable to the plague when it swept through Europe again in the 1600s.

In 1919 our government instituted Prohibition of alcohol with the intention of reducing crime and other social problems associated with the consumption of alcohol. The intentions were excellent but the cure was far worse than the illness. In short Prohibition lead to: the rise and rapid growth of organized crime, Corruption of Federal, local officials and the legal system, Crime increased due the large amounts of money to be made, Dangerous Moonshine and Government poisoned alcohol killed hundreds, Job Loss in every industry related to alcohol, restaurants, entertainment, Taxes Lost from the industries just mentioned, Hypocrisy among all classes of people as flouting the law became fashionable.

In the 1970's, catfish farmers introduced Asian Carp into their fisheries with the good intention of keeping the water clear of plankton and algae, allowing for healthier catfish. The voracious and aggressive Asian Carp, which can reach over a hundred pounds, fly through the air, injuring boaters, and decimate native fish species. It has now overtaken the Mississippi and Ohio Rivers and threatens to do the same to the Great Lakes.

For the past few decades, our government has waged a massive war against drug use. This has led to a multi-billion dollar drug industry and a commensurately expensive governmental drug-fighting establishment. Many political analysts and social commentators, and even some officers, who work in drug enforcement, insist that the worldwide drug problem and the related crime and violence are the ultimate result of our war against drugs.

Because of the Columbine shooting, our country and much of the modern world has gone on a crusade against bullying. More recently, the high-profile bullying lawsuit against South Hadley High School in Massachusetts has fired up people's hatred of bullies. In reaction, states legislatures throughout the country have beefed up their school anti-bullying laws and policies, and the US Department of Education has just made eradicating bullying its number one priority. Most other countries that have embarked on well-intentioned massive government-backed crusades to eliminate bullying have failed miserably, usually experiencing an intensification of bullying. So Bullying has been escalating in the modern world during the same period that we have been fighting it hardest, and the research has been showing that most anti-bullying programs have no benefit or make the problem even worse. Rather than looking critically at the programs some experts insist that the anti-bullying crusade is failing because we are not implementing anti-bullying policies consistently and intensively enough. However, we need to consider another possibility: that bullying is escalating because of our anti-bullying efforts.

As I have been saying throughout this post good intentions do not automatically lead to moral actions. We must consider the possible negative consequences before we institute any good intentioned interventions and if our interventions causes more harm than good, the interventions are not moral regardless of the loftiness of our intentions.

Just as an aside here good intentions often get muddled with very complex execution. The last time the government tried to make taxes easier; it created a 1040 EZ form with a 52-page help booklet.

 

[Crimea_River]

Must we turn all good stories into f!cking sermons?

Geo thanks for posting. Good news is a blessing these days. Maybe we could all accept it for what it is rather than resorting to armchair critiques.

 

[mikewint]

You're right Andy, apologies to all that #%$&*@ Good Intentions crepe reminds me of the Westboro Baptist Church

 

[michael rauls]

Exactly my point, your focus was on the safety and well-being of your child. Your focus wandered for a short time and yes the little buggers can move very fast, but in a very short period of time your focus returned to its main job as a parent.


Lord Love a Duck now you've pushed one of my buttons:
Many of the horrors of the twentieth century were supported by people with good intentions, so I pray every day for God to save us from the virtuous, good intentioned people who mean us well. Much of the evil in this world is done by people with good intentions. Beyond any doubt the most terrible things in this world are done by people who think, genuinely think, that they're doing it for the best. People are always meaning well and that's often the problem, because there are good deeds and then there are good intentions and they are as far apart as Heaven and Hell. No one would remember the Good Samaritan if he'd only had good intentions.

The first (and biggest) issue I have with intentions is how often good intentions go bad. And a really common reason they go bad is because we, as individuals, have individual wants and needs that are different from one another. How you manifest your good intentions and how I manifest mine are likely different, and how the object of our intentions receives them will likely be just as different. We often treat others how we want to be treated, instead of how they want to be treated.

This is especially true when there is a cultural divide as in the Mid-East. What is good or nice or helpful in one culture is not necessarily good or nice or helpful in another culture. We cannot assume that everything that results from our good intentions will be positive. Scientists frequently refer to the "the Law of Unintended Consequences." We should never underestimate the power of unintended negative consequences.

So as I originally posted: The Road to Hell is Paved with Good Intentions. Few individuals have genuinely bad intentions. This is why I say that most of the problems in the world are caused by good intentions. Now their intentions may not seem good to us, but they seem good to the one taking the action. Good intentions alone are not enough to make our actions moral.

All of us justify our actions to ourselves. Hitler, the modern symbol of ultimate evil, had good intentions, as did his followers. Otherwise, he would not have been able to convince intelligent, educated, enlightened Europeans that the world would be a better place without Jews and other impure people like homosexuals, Gypsies, blacks and intellectually deficient people. However, his good intentions spawned the most horrific genocidal crusade in human history.

Good Intentions and Unintended Consequences
During the Middle Ages and afterwards, well-intentioned witch hunters in Europe and America burned tens of thousands of women alive at the stake in the hope of ending epidemics, and they instilled paranoia in the populace, for anyone could be suspected of being a witch, a consorter with witches or a witches Familiar, a cat in most cases. The anti-witch pogroms also lead to the killing of tens of thousands of cats, which exacerbated the problem of the plague. Without cats to act as their predators, little kept the rat population in check and rats harbored fleas and the fleas carried the Plague bacteria. People in Europe continued to kill cats for another 300 years and remained vulnerable to the plague when it swept through Europe again in the 1600s.

In 1919 our government instituted Prohibition of alcohol with the intention of reducing crime and other social problems associated with the consumption of alcohol. The intentions were excellent but the cure was far worse than the illness. In short Prohibition lead to: the rise and rapid growth of organized crime, Corruption of Federal, local officials and the legal system, Crime increased due the large amounts of money to be made, Dangerous Moonshine and Government poisoned alcohol killed hundreds, Job Loss in every industry related to alcohol, restaurants, entertainment, Taxes Lost from the industries just mentioned, Hypocrisy among all classes of people as flouting the law became fashionable.

In the 1970's, catfish farmers introduced Asian Carp into their fisheries with the good intention of keeping the water clear of plankton and algae, allowing for healthier catfish. The voracious and aggressive Asian Carp, which can reach over a hundred pounds, fly through the air, injuring boaters, and decimate native fish species. It has now overtaken the Mississippi and Ohio Rivers and threatens to do the same to the Great Lakes.

For the past few decades, our government has waged a massive war against drug use. This has led to a multi-billion dollar drug industry and a commensurately expensive governmental drug-fighting establishment. Many political analysts and social commentators, and even some officers, who work in drug enforcement, insist that the worldwide drug problem and the related crime and violence are the ultimate result of our war against drugs.

Because of the Columbine shooting, our country and much of the modern world has gone on a crusade against bullying. More recently, the high-profile bullying lawsuit against South Hadley High School in Massachusetts has fired up people's hatred of bullies. In reaction, states legislatures throughout the country have beefed up their school anti-bullying laws and policies, and the US Department of Education has just made eradicating bullying its number one priority. Most other countries that have embarked on well-intentioned massive government-backed crusades to eliminate bullying have failed miserably, usually experiencing an intensification of bullying. So Bullying has been escalating in the modern world during the same period that we have been fighting it hardest, and the research has been showing that most anti-bullying programs have no benefit or make the problem even worse. Rather than looking critically at the programs some experts insist that the anti-bullying crusade is failing because we are not implementing anti-bullying policies consistently and intensively enough. However, we need to consider another possibility: that bullying is escalating because of our anti-bullying efforts.

As I have been saying throughout this post good intentions do not automatically lead to moral actions. We must consider the possible negative consequences before we institute any good intentioned interventions and if our interventions causes more harm than good, the interventions are not moral regardless of the loftiness of our intentions.

Just as an aside here good intentions often get muddled with very complex execution. The last time the government tried to make taxes easier; it created a 1040 EZ form with a 52-page help booklet.

Wow alot there to respond to. Your never at a loss for words. First let me point out you quoted me out of context in a case where context changes everything.
Saying" when it comes to are you good or bad( to put it simply) intentions are everything is a world different than just saying " intentions are everything."
Having said that I agree that many a smoking crater both figuratively and literally were proceeded with good intentions. There are to things id like to try to define and those are frames of reference and what are good intentions.
First there are two frames of reference here, one of material outcomes and a more metaphysical one of where one falls one the good/ bad devide shall we say.
It is of course posible( posible, heck happens all the time) for someone to be doing the rite thing as best they can figure and still F things up but this does not make them evil.
I'd like to contrast that to the usual example used in such discussions that you also cite, adolph hitler. It's often asserted as you did that hitler thought in his mind he was doing the rite thing therefore intentions don't matter only real world consequences do.
Let me address the first frame of reference here the metaphysical. I would submit the hitler did not ultimately think he was doing the rite thing. Everyone knows deep down when they are doing wrong hence the resultant internal conflict. Usualy this first wrong in a long chain will be resentment of a person, group, or situation. Of course we all have a choice at this point to let it go( forgive) or hold onto the resentment. If we hold onto it it creates conflict as we know deep inside this is not proper. If held onto long enough, sometimes not so long, that simmering resentment will turn inevitably to anger. And anger can make us feel justified like we are doing the rite thing when were not but deep inside we still have that conflict telling us we are not.
This to me is the inernal or metaphysical frame of reference that determines what kind of person one is. Good or bad to put it simply.
As far as the material results are concerned, out in the world so to speak, yes ultimately only the results will matter.
But again that isn't going to make you.......or me, a good or bad person. All we can do is realize that we can't control the world around us but we can control how we react to it( hopefully without simmering resentment/ unjustified anger) , stay centered so our judgement is not clouded by such and try to do the rite thing...............
.....That, at least in my view will determine what kind of person we are. I hope that explains why I believe on an individual basis why good intentions( real ones, not self righteous anger that makes us FEEL justified) are so important.

 

[P-39 Expert]

The first story may change so here's the story...

View attachment 549316

View attachment 549317​

Great story.