Udet- Germany really did not intend to Invade UK ever.

the lancaster kicks ass · Mar 25, 2006

350,000 were in the BEF

sorry, i'd just assumed as that's not much more than were evacuated that a lot more would've been killed before evacuation........

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Mar 25, 2006

Have you ever read any of the stories about the boats going back to England with the soldiers on them. Overloaded passed there max safetly allowance. Fishing boats and what not, and the Stukas diving on them. That must have been crazy.

plan_D · Mar 25, 2006

Not all those evacuated were British , the Royal Navy pulled out French and Belgian soldiers too. One for one against British troops ...

Hunter368 · Apr 1, 2006

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:
Have you ever read any of the stories about the boats going back to England with the soldiers on them. Overloaded passed there max safetly allowance. Fishing boats and what not, and the Stukas diving on them. That must have been crazy.

It would of been a site to see for sure. Yachts, fishing boats, Navy ships all loaded to the tits with troops. I am sure it was total Chaos at times.

the lancaster kicks ass · Apr 8, 2006

Have you ever read any of the stories about the boats going back to England with the soldiers on them. Overloaded passed there max safetly allowance. Fishing boats and what not, and the Stukas diving on them. That must have been crazy.

if you're addressing me then yes, several, they're quite common over here

Not all those evacuated were British , the Royal Navy pulled out French and Belgian soldiers too. One for one against British troops ...

i am aware of that also, although that wasn't the policy from the beggining, it was only really after the french prime minister asked for it, the RN hated it but churchill said they must as they had to keep favour with the french and remaining belgians

Yachts, fishing boats, Navy ships all loaded to the tits with troops. I am sure it was total Chaos at times.

suprisingly the RN managed to keep pretty good tabs on it all, and remember not all the small ships loaded up and went all the way back to england, most just took men off the beaches out the larger royal naval ships further out to sea............

KraziKanuK · Apr 8, 2006

Didn't most, if not all, the 'saved' French soldiers return to France only to surrender later?

HealzDevo · Dec 13, 2006

I thought the 'Free French' contained some French Troops that had escaped Dunkirk...

Glider · Dec 13, 2006

I have been reading an article about the Japanese view of the BOB as reported by the Jap Military attaches based in the German and British embassies. In it they touched on the German landing preparations.

The Japanese embassy pointed out to the Germans that they had a fair amount of experience of landings. The Germans for once were quick to take the hint, invited them to watch the preparations and make comments. I don't know what they told the Germans, but the Japanese Delagation headed by a Major Sakurai and including a number of naval and army officers reported that the Germans were totally ill equipped and the units involved showed no eagerness for the operation.

They also touch on Dunkirk. The Japanese reported that the soldiers arriving back were in a pathetic state, at best only with small arms normally only in uniform and clearly glad to be alive. However the morale of the men and crowd was clearly high and this impressed the Japanese.

Hunter368 · Dec 14, 2006

Glider said:
I have been reading an article about the Japanese view of the BOB as reported by the Jap Military attaches based in the German and British embassies. In it they touched on the German landing preparations.

The Japanese embassy pointed out to the Germans that they had a fair amount of experience of landings. The Germans for once were quick to take the hint, invited them to watch the preparations and make comments. I don't know what they told the Germans, but the Japanese Delagation headed by a Major Sakurai and including a number of naval and army officers reported that the Germans were totally ill equipped and the units involved showed no eagerness for the operation.

They also touch on Dunkirk. The Japanese reported that the soldiers arriving back were in a pathetic state, at best only with small arms normally only in uniform and clearly glad to be alive. However the morale of the men and crowd was clearly high and this impressed the Japanese.

Good stuff Glider, I like the whole Japanese point of view of the landings. Nice

Glider · Dec 14, 2006

One of the best bits was that the Japanese High Command were very displeased by the report, as it appeared as if they had encouraged Japan to side itself to a country that was going to lose. Major Sakurai was asked to amend his report but such was his feeling, he refused to do so.

Considering the power of Japans High Command, this was a gutsy thing to do.

syscom3 · Dec 14, 2006

Glider, do you have a link to that info about the Japanese views?

That sounds mighty interesting!

Glider · Dec 15, 2006

Its in a book that I am reading not a link. When I get time over the weekend I will start a new thread summerising the Japanese view. It is quite interesting and had the Japanese listened to their people in Europe things may well have turned out differently. The book also has chapters on the American and Russian view of the battle which I will also summerise.
It wasn't just the Japanese who didn't learn all they could about air combat.

HealzDevo · Dec 15, 2006

Also one wonders whether Hitler was intending on using Britain to test what little amphibious equipment they had... Then his next move might have been if all went well to refine his equipment, mop up the last resistance in Europe and then perhaps go after the US... Personally though, I doubt that would have been successful as it seems there is at least 1 gun for every person in the US. Practically everybody owns one, unlike England at the time and therefore the German troops would be fighting a war of attrition in which they only have their training and little to no knowledge of the terrain and villages they are fighting in. Thus it will be a meat-grinder for the Germans. Also this scenario relies on them building the Graf Zeppelin Aircraft Carrier plus a sister ship and loading them with aircraft... It also relies on Japan winning in the Pacific which wouldn't give Germany much time to prepare really because Japan starts losing the Pacific War in 1942 so no it is questionable that Germany could have crossed the waves to the United States and brought enough troops over to survive the war of attrition that would have taken place... Also nothing less than a fatal blow will really do as unless the blow is fatal to the US it will come back swinging and invade Germany. Also this is assuming a War where Russia is still in its neutrality and so Germany is free to devote the weight of its troops to the United States. Personally though, once Germany gets devoted to conquering the US, in this scenario, Russia is likely to bring out the big guns and engage what troops are left behind in Germany and thus the war ends quicker than it really did.
Keep in mind that this is my guess on what success in the BOB might have led to and thus it could be debated as it is unknown for sure. All we can do is surmise based on what we know what Hitler's next move might have been...

Glider · Dec 15, 2006

To all intents and purposes compared to the task in hand, the Germans didn't have any specialised landing equipment.
It was one huge bodge.

HealzDevo · Dec 16, 2006

It is a fact though, that Graf Zeppelin wouldn't be finished in time and without air cover the fleet is exposed to the long-range aircraft that target submarines as well as a full-strength US if they wait until Graf Zeppelin and a sister ship are built. You have to remember that if things stay largely on the basis of probability the same for Hitler's mental state, that he would be going a bit crazy towards 1944 and starting to overrule his generals and doing some other foolish things...

Twitch · Dec 20, 2006

Hitler never intended to invade Britain during the war, period. He felt blockading it with U-boats and ravaging the Continent would make GB sue for peace.

IF he had decided to invade GB in 1935 he would have had Speer develop the appropriate vehiclles and equipment to do so by 1940. Regardless of any fictional scenario that may have played out, make no mistake, the Germans would have been equipped with appropriately IF that was a an earlier goal of the Fuhrer. To imagine that German industry was incapable of designing and manufacturing functional vehicles and equipment to do so is just wrong.

Hunter368 · Dec 20, 2006

Twitch said:
Hitler never intended to invade Britain during the war, period. He felt blockading it with U-boats and ravaging the Continent would make GB sue for peace.

IF he had decided to invade GB in 1935 he would have had Speer develop the appropriate vehiclles and equipment to do so by 1940. Regardless of any fictional scenario that may have played out, make no mistake, the Germans would have been equipped with appropriately IF that was a an earlier goal of the Fuhrer. To imagine that German industry was incapable of designing and manufacturing functional vehicles and equipment to do so is just wrong.

Hitler was not one that you could call a Masterful planner. He did alot of things with short notice to the down fall of his Generals, soldiers, navy and AF. The question was never "if" they could make the machines to do it. It was if he intended to really plan to invade after UK said it would never surender. Once BoB started he declared he was going to invade UK. Was that true (if it was true, could he actually have done it or not) or only a bluff on his part? Thats what the thread was about.

Germany did amazing things in WW2, if given time (thats the key word) it could of done even greater things. ("greater" meaning only amazing things with inventing technolegy)

Soren · Dec 20, 2006

Hunter remember that Hitler's health steadily decreased as the war went on, which is part of why he made so many blunders later on. Early on he was more willing to listen and didn't live as much in a fantasy world as later.

I'm with Twitch 100%.

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