wuzak
Captain
In this case, has "regime change" actually occurred?
The acting/interim president was Maduro's deputy, and the ruling party hasn't changed.
USA attacks Venezuela (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter tomo pauk
- Start date
Ad: This forum contains affiliate links to products on Amazon and eBay. More information in Terms and rules
In this case, has "regime change" actually occurred?
The acting/interim president was Maduro's deputy, and the ruling party hasn't changed.
Admiral Beez
Major
Or Greenland? Prime Minister Jens Frederik Nielsen had best turn off his phone's location tracking.
'We need Greenland': Trump repeats threat to annex Danish territory
The US president has repeatedly said he wants the island to become a part of the US.
www.bbc.com
Last edited:
Media is full of speculation, nobody seems to really understand what the motive is, nor what the plan going forward is. Perhaps that even extends to the US administration itself.
Anyway, here's Anne Applebaum's analysis, she's usually pretty sharp. Trump's 'American Dominance' May Leave Us With Nothing
Anyway, here's Anne Applebaum's analysis, she's usually pretty sharp. Trump's 'American Dominance' May Leave Us With Nothing
Realistically, DEN can't prevent it, per se. But it could install some tripwire troops there. The US attacking a NATO ally could/should/would/? trigger a serious crisis in NATO, very likely ending up with the US leaving it. Yes, that would be a huge blow to what would remain of NATO, but does the US really think it can go alone without any friends and engage in a great power competition with China and come out on top? A China with multiples of population, and dominating international trade thanks to its industrial muscle?
The whole thing is just so unhinged one can't really wrap ones head around it..
MiTasol
Major
Or Greenland? Prime Minister Jens Frederik Nielsen had best turn off his phone's location tracking.
Of course what could Greenland or Denmark do if tomorrow a USN LHA anchors off Nuuk and lands two thousand Marines, with the CO exclaiming we're taking over Greenland's defenses in the name of US national security? Too far fetched? I thought so to, until the US flew into a sovereign state and kidnapped its president and first lady.'We need Greenland': Trump repeats threat to annex Danish territory
The US president has repeatedly said he wants the island to become a part of the US.
I think that because almost all NATO members would then be trapped between Russia and Russia's strongest ally, that would finally spur the rest of NATO into the action they should have taken almost one year ago.
Last edited:
buffnut453
Captain
That's exactly the question I was raising. Yes, Maduro has been removed but the rest of the regime is still in place. It's all well and good kicking off something but there really should be a plan in place for how to deal with the aftermath. Surely this was a key lesson from Gulf War 2?
And yet there doesn't seem to be a coherent plan, and there's certainly no way that the US can "run Venezuela" without considerable investment (financial, technological, and human) to change the trajectory of the country. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see armed paramilitary groups in Venezuela actively opposing any US presence in the country, to include personnel from the oil companies that, in theory, are going to get oil production moving again.
I fear this could get a lot uglier before it gets better...if, and that's a BIG IF, it does get better.
buffnut453
Captain
I think the key question here is who, within the Maduro regime, helped the US forces execute their mission. The precision and speed of the operation strongly indicate that someone on the inside was providing very specific information about Maduro's whereabouts.
If the US was being aided by someone high up within Maduro's regime, then we're essentially looking not at regime change but leadership change, with the new leader (presumably Maduro's deputy) essentially leading a puppet government that functions at the behest of Washington. The fact that Washington has dismissed Maria Corina Machada as irrelevant strongly suggests that there's been some agrrement with Delcy Eloína Rodríguez Gómez.
The problem with such agreements is that there will always be some group or faction that disagrees with the new situation. Just look at Iraq and Afghanistan where the overthrow of totalitarian or highly restrictive and ruthless regimes was still met with armed insurrection. I can't help wondering if we'll see organizations (military, paramilitary, criminal) take active measures against the regime and/or US assets. If we do, things could get ugly quickly.
If the US was being aided by someone high up within Maduro's regime, then we're essentially looking not at regime change but leadership change, with the new leader (presumably Maduro's deputy) essentially leading a puppet government that functions at the behest of Washington. The fact that Washington has dismissed Maria Corina Machada as irrelevant strongly suggests that there's been some agrrement with Delcy Eloína Rodríguez Gómez.
The problem with such agreements is that there will always be some group or faction that disagrees with the new situation. Just look at Iraq and Afghanistan where the overthrow of totalitarian or highly restrictive and ruthless regimes was still met with armed insurrection. I can't help wondering if we'll see organizations (military, paramilitary, criminal) take active measures against the regime and/or US assets. If we do, things could get ugly quickly.
wuzak
Captain
It all feels like a distraction.
Viking1066
Brigadier General
If you hear what is being said about the whole thing, it follows with a whole lot of other things that seem distracting. Or don't make sense at all.
swampyankee
Chief Master Sergeant
- 4,306
- Jun 25, 2013
Well, yes.
swampyankee
Chief Master Sergeant
- 4,306
- Jun 25, 2013
Haiti 1915.
The US and USSR/Russia are certainly not the only countries guilty of this. I'm just American, so I'm more familiar with US behaviors; USSR behaviors were quite well covered in the media.
We could probably add Suez 1956.
swampyankee
Chief Master Sergeant
- 4,306
- Jun 25, 2013
I suspect one of the side effects of this little adventure (other than somebody thinking that this is 19th Century imperialism redux) will be that quite a few countries will beef up their nuclear (and WMD, in general) programs.
It will also push a lot of countries closer to China. It's rather ironic that the anti-China rhetoric is effectively nullified by behaviors seemingly intended to push everybody into China's arms.
It will also push a lot of countries closer to China. It's rather ironic that the anti-China rhetoric is effectively nullified by behaviors seemingly intended to push everybody into China's arms.
Warspite63
Staff Sergeant
- 1,098
- Dec 8, 2022
This
SaparotRob
Unter Gemeine Geschwader Murmeltier XIII
Duchy of Grand Fenwick's assault on New York City.
Thumpalumpacus
Colonel
Every country with pretensions of major-power status has practiced this behavior. It doesn't speak to national stereotypes as much as it does to human nature, in my mind. People with power generally, though not always, try to gather more.
Thumpalumpacus
Colonel
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
So it doesn't matter that the previous administration posted a 25 million bounty in Maduro's head and it doesn't matter that prevelant Russian and Chinese AA defenses failed to prevent the incursion and it doesn't matter that Venezuelan elections have been compromised, resulting in thousands of deaths and imprisonment over 20 years - Orange man is bad.
Even though milliins of Venezuelans are celebrating across the globe, orange man is bad.
I don't like the current administration, but Jesus H. Christ, if Clinton or Biden did this, everyone would be losing their shit for joy.
Even though milliins of Venezuelans are celebrating across the globe, orange man is bad.
I don't like the current administration, but Jesus H. Christ, if Clinton or Biden did this, everyone would be losing their shit for joy.
buffnut453
Captain
Again, please stop the false binary narrative. The enforced removal of another country's leader is illegal under international law. For the US to act in this way (regardless of who is in the White House) sets a really dangerous precedent given current tensions. It essentially gives a green light to any authoritarian leader to do whatever they want to another nation.
It seems like this raid was carried out almost perfectly. I'm just nervous about the fallout, both regionally and globally. It's easy to upset an apple cart. Recovering the apples and getting them back into a functioning cart may be far tougher because people still have agency. You can't control everyone, everywhere by remote edict.
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
Ok, cool - so Obama attacking Libya was legit.
Thumpalumpacus
Colonel
I scrolled back through this thread and didn't see anyone posit that. Could you link to the offending post?
