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I did some calculations for impact forces on projectiles and got the following figures using the following formula: Impact force = projectile weight (grains) x velocity (fps)^2 / 450437...
The 20mm was 11% more powerful. Not as much as I'd have thought believe it or not. This of course just counts impact force
- 0.50 BMG: 10000-15000 foot-pounds (I didn't calculate that but it was based on various figures -- I don't know how much the rounds differed from WWII)
- 0.60 (15.2x114mm): 33951 foot-pounds
- 20x110mm: 37683 foot-pounds
- 37mm M4: 83322.6 foot-pounds
- 37mm M9: 268263.25 (not sure if I miscalculated that one)
- Vickers-S (40x158mm): 179026.6
Foot-pounds is a commonly used metric for ballistics. It may not be the most mathematically elegant unit admittedly (or in fact, the most accurate).Firstly, if those were impact force, the units would be pounds-force (lbf), not foot-pounds, which is a measure of work/energy (if the pounds is lbf).
Well the formula for joules I think involved a division by 2000.Secondly, use metric units. They make more sense and you don't have to insert magic numbers.
That's the chamber though, the barrel is slightly narrower than the bullet rammed through it from what I remember. The barrels are usually longer however...The guns have to be bigger to handle the longer, fatter cartridge cases.
When you say -- early manuals -- how early? 1935, 1940, 1942?No, the US .50 had those restrictions, at least in early manuals. the .60 would have been worse.
Foot-pounds is a commonly used metric for ballistics. It may not be the most mathematically elegant unit admittedly (or in fact, the most accurate).
Well the formula for joules I think involved a division by 2000.
Foot-pounds is neither energy or a force. So why would it be commonly used in ballistics?.
Foot-pounds is a force (pound - remember, slug is the unit of mass) times a distance (foot). Therefore it is unarguably a unit of energy, equivalent to the Joule. I'd rather not use such a unit in calculations, but then I'd rather not use horsepower, pounds and square feet either. I'll always compare WWII aircraft using those units though, so if the gun guys want to use foot-pounds then it doesn't seem unreasonable.Foot-pounds is neither energy or a force. So why would it be commonly used in ballistic
The entire English/SAE measurement system is unreasonable, but we use it anyway. Like the song in "Fiddler on the Roof": "TRADITION!"if the gun guys want to use foot-pounds then it doesn't seem unreasonable.
Not really. A rational system of units like SI is only required when you need to perform calculations relating lots of different units. Ultimately, all units are arbitrary, and for comparing values is doesn't matter what system you use. For historical reasons, most English-speaking aircraft people tend to be more familiar with quantities in feet, horsepower, pounds and mile per hour. When I need to do calculations, I'll convert horsepower to kilowatts, pounds to kilograms, feet to metres and miles per hour to metres per second; and when I've finished the calculation I'll change the results back to the Imperial units. And I suspect many others do the same. I simply don't have a 'feel' for what a kilowatt means, in the way that I do with horsepower.The entire English/SAE measurement system is unreasonable, but we use it anyway. Like the song in "Fiddler on the Roof": "TRADITION!"
Cheers,
Wes
I don't either, because I, like you, grew up steeped in this awkward, irrational, imperial system that we have a "feel" for. But the age of empire is over and our antiquated system is an ethnocentric throwback to a time the rest of the world would just as soon forget. Our dwindling economic dominance of the world market and unwillingness to change is the only thing keeping it alive. The sooner the better in my book.I simply don't have a 'feel' for what a kilowatt means, in the way that I do with horsepower.
But I didn't grow up in it. New Zealand changed to metric when I was about seven (I think), so all my life I've used metric units for everything I work with. And all my engineering has of course only been in SI. I convert miles to kilometres, pounds to kilograms, Fahrenheit to Celsius, when I need a feel for them.I don't either, because I, like you, grew up steeped in this awkward, irrational, imperial system that we have a "feel" for. But the age of empire is over and our antiquated system is an ethnocentric throwback to a time the rest of the world would just as soon forget. Our dwindling economic dominance of the world market and unwillingness to change is the only thing keeping it alive. The sooner the better in my book.
Cheers,
Wes
wuzak said:The formula for kinetic energy energy in metric units is KE = 1/2 m * v^2
All values to eight significant figures, of course.Where m is in kg, and v is in m/s.
Converting the 1200 grain projectile into metric and the 3500-3600 fps velocity into m/s, I end up with 44257.11 - 46385.99 J. In comparison to other rounds I get
- Browning 0.303: 3365.02-3728.56 J
- AN/M2 (BMG): 16798.79 J
- HS404 Mk.V: 47343.39-50785.44 J
- 37mm M4: 112970.09 J
- Vickers S: 242727.02 J (new gun, 222921.17 J worn)
- 37mm M9: 313547.74 J
Well the 0.303 would be 3.4-3.7 then
I have suspected for some time that wuzak's "NIH" comment was the central issue on U.S. 20mm development for aircraft. The U.S. Army - and thus the USAAC/AAF - had a near-unholy love of the 37mm gun. Virtually every attack/ground support aircraft under development immediately prior to and during WWII had the 37mm cannon as part of of its potential armament. In many cases it was one of a number of different armament fitments. I have a copy of an original engineering drawing for mounting the 37mm in the Wing of the Mustang, probably for the A-36 or early Mustangs (sorry...can't immediately recall for which).
Nearly all American heavy bombers had 37mm turrets as part of their early design studies, and the AAF did studies for bomber mountings of cannon up to 105mm. I believe it as Oldsmobile that actually had a working prototype for a 105mm short-barreled cannon for mounting on heavy attack aircraft, and the A--26 had one mounted in a gondola in their initial proposal documents.
I suspect that this love of the 37mm gun may have had something to do with John Browning's involvement with the design of the 37mm cannon, but that is speculation on my part at this point. Browning's development of the .30 and .50 cal machine guns certainly gave him very high standing in the eyes of the command structure.
In the German case, they also had war-time pressures limiting development, otherwise the MG 151/20 may not have been a simple rechambering with the barrel change being the primary difference. They may have preferred a somewhat higher velocity weapon had they been afforded the time to start-up new production with a lengthened receiver and somewhat longer cartridges.Large guns.
Heavy ammo.
Very short barrel life.
US Pilots were advised to fire only 75 rounds through a cold barrel before stopping to let it cool and only about 25 rounds per minute after that.
Obviously not practical in real combat but a sure indicator that barrel life was not good. High velocity guns funnel an awful lot of high temperature gas through small diameter barrels.
The Germans traded the hitting advantage of the 15mm cartridge for the greater destructive ability of the heavier projectiles. They changed course.