- Thread starter
-
- #101
Wild_Bill_Kelso
Senior Master Sergeant
- 3,231
- Mar 18, 2022
That's a very interesting detail about the beacons.
Ad: This forum contains affiliate links to products on Amazon and eBay. More information in Terms and rules
This is part of the problem with evaluating some of these planes.The slightly newer B5N was definitely better.
I basically summarized the data from Malta, the Spitfire Year 1942, without trying to be too specific. But yes, many aircraft crashed well away from the convoy.One of the interesting bits from Lundstrom was that the Wildcat pilots seriously overclaimed Japanese land-based bombers during the carrier raids before Midway. However, when aircraft that didn't make it back to base, crashed during landing due to damage, or were simply operational losses are counted, the total is almost exactly the same as the claims of the USN pilots.
It makes some of the numbers above a little more sensible. After all, if the FAA fighters claimed 17 and AAA claimed 8, that's a total of 25. We're told that no more than 8 of the 35 total losses were from Malta-based fighter cover. But 25+8 only equals 33 ...
I suspect that some of the "I shot it down!" claims were wrong in the immediate, confirmable sense, but that the damaged aircraft went down somewhere on the hundred-mile flight home.
HMS Furious flew off Spitfires, not Eagle. Furious then returned to Gibraltar. The Spitfires were given new Hydromatic CS props that proved better for carrier TO.Ok so I've been compiling data, as promised.
Here is the quite gripping and highly dramatic story of Pedestal as best I can determine:
Pedestal
Entire convoy duration – 3-15 August
Operation Bellows (interesting to note – they put a constant speed propeller on the Spitfires for carrier takeoff.
Aug 11
Eagle Sunk (but launches Spitfires) losing 16 naval fighters
At dusk attack detected 50 nm
Recon Ju 88 flying too high for Sea Hurricanes to catch
27 x Ju 88 and 3 x He 111
4 X SH CAP, 19 x SH launched to intercept.
2 Ju 88s shot down by AAA. Some British fighters damaged by friendly fire.
(After Eagle sunk, Italian Submarine Dagabur rammed by HMS Wolverine and sunk with all hands!)
Aug 12
First Raid
Launched from Sardinia when 200 nm from convoy
Detected at 65 nm
19 x Ju 88 with 16 x Bf 109
8 x Sea Hurricanes CAP, + 11 SH and 4 Fulmars launched.
Intercepted at 25 nm
2 FAA fighters lost. Only 4 Ju 88s bomb the convoy, but all miss.
The first strike was by 18 Vals and Zeros - no B5Ns. The initial interception by F4F-4s was followed by ~8 more F4F-4s. The IJN Zeros encountered a formation of SBDs which they engaged with 6 Zeros, and while they claimed no kills, none of the SBDs survived the encounter. Two Zeros were forced to return to Hiryu due to damage. Undoubtedly the 4 remaining Zeros had used up their cannon ammo and the other 6 Zeros seem to have lagged behind the Vals, allowing the initial Wildcat interception.IJN Strikes vs US Carriers
First Strike detected 46nm
40 Aircraft - 18 Val, 10 x B5N, 12 x A6M
Intercepted by 4 x Wildcat at 15-20nm
13 x D3A and 3 x A6M destroyed, (2 more A6M heavily damaged by SBDs and turned back)
28 bombers
12:05 7 aircraft reach Yorktown: 3 Vals, 4 B5N
3 bomb hits, 2 torpedo hits
(Yorktown repaired and put back underway, Japanese thought it was sunk)
Second Strike detected at 45nm
Four F4F fighters sent more quickly, then two more.
10 B5N, 6 x A6M from Hiryu
Only two F4F initially intercept
5 x B5N and 2 x A6M destroyed by fighters and AAA, Yorktown hit by 2 torpedoes
Thus do we go back to the crux of the matter. Allied cooperation enhanced the abilities of the USN and the RN throughout the war.Given American inability to provide adequate fighter direction in that era, I'm not sure that any airframe would have made up those deficiencies.
The Axis formations came in close enough in time, in each wave, that it was impossible for the CAP to concentrate on any single formation and 12 Me109Fs, for example, would probably have outnumbered the CAP directed against any single formation.Though there were a lot of aircraft attacking at Pedestal, they came in smaller waves and none of the Axis attacks were escorted by very large numbers of fighters. It was roughly the same amount in any one wave as in the Japanese attacks. The most Japanese figthers at once at Coral Sea was 18 A6M. The largest fighter cover force I see at Pedestal is 21 Bf 109, most are more like 12.
One big issue was that while 1942 era radar could give direction and speed of an enemy formation, it could not give accurate altitude information. While the F4F-4s could be vectored towards an incoming raid, their poor climb rate made interception difficult if the raid was too high, and if the F4Fs were ordered to higher altitudes the time that it took to climb delayed interception.Given American inability to provide adequate fighter direction in that era, I'm not sure that any airframe would have made up those deficiencies.
The RN began to develop techniques for estimating height with its metric Type 79/279/281 radars from 1940. The radar officer in Victorious contributed greatly to this. In exercises over 2 weeks in June 1942 he was able to develop things to the extent that it became known as "the Contour Method".One big issue was that while 1942 era radar could give direction and speed of an enemy formation, it could not give accurate altitude information. While the F4F-4s could be vectored towards an incoming raid, their poor climb rate made interception difficult if the raid was too high, and if the F4Fs were ordered to higher altitudes the time that it took to climb delayed interception.