Were the tails protected against their own rear/upper gunners gunfire?

[seesul]

Hi Terry,
here´s the promised information about antenna on a B-17G posted by Jim Peters, a former B-17G flight engineer, serving in 99th BG:

...a small correction....there were TWO wires attached to the vertical fin...the one on the left was the Liaison Antenna, that connected to an antenna standoff around the left radio room window and then to the large (approx 4 ft x 4ft x 18 inchs or so),Liaison box, on the back left wall of the radio room and connected to a large knife switch just forward of the Liaiason Box...the knife switch, switched between the left long antenna,and a whip antenna on the bottom of the fuselage. (The early B-17s used a small wire across the walkway, and nearly decapitated anyone sliding off the walkways on both sides of the trailing edge of the wing, and was changed to the whip antenna under the fuselage).

The B-17G that is out on summer tour with the Arizona Wing CAF, has the Large Liaison Box with the large knife switch installed, with the proper long wires on both sides of the vertical fin.

The right long antenna wire connected via an antenna standoff,on the right side of the radio room,by the right radio room window, to the Command Radios located just to the right of the radio room door into the bombay.

Most artists in drawing the B-17, usually connect one wire to the radio room and the other terminates at the "Axe Handle" antenna, where no B-17 I ever flew on was connected to the "Axe Handle" antenna. The "Axe Handle" was an A/N, which means that it was used on many smaller aircraft of both the USAF and Navy and Marine aircraft as well.

The so called "Axe Handle' Antenna was for the marker antenna, and was NOT connected to the long wires attached to the vertical fin. (Reference 1B-17G-4, Illustrated Parts Breakdown).

Jim

 

[MikeHoulder]

Seesul, I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the Lancaster. The Taboo system is a very good example of a mechanical device which guarantees the mid-upper gunner doesn't shoot off the tail of the aircraft.

The system has two rollers, one for each gun, which travel round the track as the turret traverses. The track has different heights as the rollers go round it and when the track is sufficient high the corresponding gun cannot fire.

Here are three of my drawings to show you:

Best wishes
Mike

 

[Airframes]

Tha cam track on the Lanc was actually mentioned, briefly, in post No. 6. Depending on production block, this didn't actually prevent the guns from firing - it was designed to lift the barrels over the areas of the fins, the props and cockpit area, simply by the cams hitting the track, preventing the barrels from being depressed into line with these areas. Later Marks, and particularly those fitted with the Martin upper turet, had cut-outs, as did the Halifax mid-upper on the MkIII.

 

[MikeHoulder]

Ee by gum,lad. I learn something new each day. Thank you.
Mike

 

[Airframes]

No probs mate!

 

[seesul]

And I thank you for this post!

 

[Airframes]

You're welcome Roman!

 

[fubar57]

I know its an old thread but Im bored. Deflectors mounted on top of the B-25.

Geo

 

[nuuumannn]

Another addition. On this Anson you can see on the inboard side of the engine nacelles a black and red stripe: this was there to give an indication to the gunner not to fire inboard of the line, otherwise he would damage the propeller. The tail looks suspiciously vulnerable. The Anson was of a similar vintage to the Tupolev SB-2, if that helps with the original enquiry.

The Anson had an Armstrong Whitworth turret; it was manually operated and rotated.

 

[Airframes]

Geo, I believe the B-25J had electrical cut outs for the top turret. Those 'bumps' are vents, AFAIK, to evacuate fumes from the inside of the fuselage, and are over the crawl way on top of the bomb bay roof. I can't find my B-25 E&M manual to confirm though!

 

[tyrodtom]

You can see from the pictures those bumps wouldn't prevent you from pointing the gun barrels at the twin tails.

I got a reprint of one of the manuals used to train turret gunners, they used limit stops and fire cutoffs. On the belly turret, the limit stops prevented the barrels from being able to be lifted enough to point upward to hit the fuselage or wings, the fire cutoffs allowed you to still aim the barrels inside the propeller disk, and loop antenna, on the bottom, but the gun wouldn't fire. These limiters and cutoffs were part of each gunners premission checks.

Other turrets on the aircraft would use varitions on the fire cutoffs and barrel limiters.

 

[CBBEhr]

B17s originally had no protection but it was added to later models

 

[Barrett]

Ref. the SBD guns & gunners:

In restoring our Dauntless, I investigated the subject. Whether single or twin .30 mount, there was no mechanical cutout or interrupter to avoid hosing one's tail feathers. IIRC McClusky's replacement gunner on the morning mission of June 4 got excited and hosed the vertical stab and maybe rudder, somewhat.

AS I RECALL, the TBF/TBM turret .50 cal did have a self-preservation gadget.