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This might have been true as I do know there was also 'rumor' that along with these engine proposals was a proposal to get rid of the yoke and go with a stick. I read somewhere that during an interview Kelly Johnson was quoted verifying this, but again never found any documented proof of these proposals.For FlyboyJ:
How true it is I don't know but in the book "Vee's for Victory" the author describes 2 if not 3 different P-38/Merlin proposals. In no case does it make any real difference to performance (except in some cases the Merlin versions had shorter estimated range). These are all paper studies.
How much difference it would have made to maintenance or service issues I don't know.
For the early part of the war the P-38 was the ONLY premier US fighter and was in chronic short supply in all theaters. Delays in production would have seriously hampered US efforts at the time.
That feature was eliminated before the A0 (i.e. pre-production) version.low drag surface evaporative cooling system
Kurfurst posted DB601 / DB605 fuel consumption data awhile back. As I recall newer versions of the DB601 engine got as good or better fuel economy then the early model.increase fuel capacity needed for the bigger engines
Which worked just fine on early Me-109s. They will work just as well on early Fw-187s.Germans were stuck with the MG FF cannon
Those are Ju-88 missions. They do not matter for single seat day fighters like the Me-109 and Fw-187.non-adaptability to the night fighter role
slightly less suitability for the fast bomber role.
I don't think so. The Hornet was over twice as heavy. A light bomber / attack aircraft rather then a long range fighter.
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The first Lightning to see active service was the F-4 version, a P-38E in which the guns were replaced by four K17 cameras.[48] They joined the 8th Photographic Squadron out of Australia on 4 April 1942
Yes it was but it also means that a FW 187 with twin 1000hp engines and regular radiators won't do 391-395mph.That feature was eliminated before the A0 (i.e. pre-production) version.
You are comparing apples to oranges. the DB 601-605 is not going get fuel consumption than the Ju 210 of 700hp.Kurfurst posted DB601 / DB605 fuel consumption data awhile back. As I recall newer versions of the DB601 engine got as good or better fuel economy then the early model.
They worked just fine for about 8 seconds and then the ammo ran out. ME 110s had two extra drums per gun and a radio operator to change them.Which worked just fine on early Me-109s. They will work just as well on early Fw-187s.
That is the problem with the FW 187. It doesn't work that well as an escort fighter in the early part of the war and it isn't as adaptable to other missions. In other words why bother with it if resourses are stretched thin.Those are Ju-88 missions. They do not matter for single seat day fighters like the Me-109 and Fw-187.
Lockheed P-38 Lightning - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The P-38 did not enter active service until 1942. Two years after Whirlwinds and Fw-187 pre-production aircraft served in combat. So you are right about the comparison being unfair. The Whirlwind and Fw-187A0 should probably be compared to the YP-38s flying during 1940.
are being compared with theoretical improvements to unsuccessful designs with engines etc that probably wouldnt have worked.
The whirlwind was withdrawn very shortly after its introduction, in its one major engagement during the channel dash of the Scharnhorst it was decimated by bf 109s .
Rolls-Royce DID have the time and resources to concentrate on one type, at a time when they had around four programs on the boil, so why do you think they would choose a 21-litre engine over a 27-litre engine? Cubes count and Rolls-Royce saw the Merlin as the principal breadwinner; the Peregrine was axed and the Griffon and Vulture were put on the backburner.A sensible what if instead of the usual fit Merlins what if, would be for Rolls Royce to have had the time and resources to develop the Peregrine in a similar fashion to the Merlin. The Peregrine was a 21 litre engine roughly 3/4 the size the size of a Merlin, all the upgrades for the Merlin could inspire similar approx 3/4 sized developments for the Peregrine.
If Rolls Royce had built a Merlin 60 equivalent Using the Merlin Supercharger as the first stage in a similar fashion to the way the Vulture blower was used for the Merlin you could have a 1100 to 1200hp Peregrine with a decent altitude performance.
Not really
the Whirlwind wasn't just built with the Peregrines in mind, it was physically tailored to the Peregrines; changes to the powerplant would have resulted in considerable changes elsewhere to accommodate the new weight/size/CoG/fuel demand/you name it.
Westland had a crack at a Merlin-powered bird, it was called the Welkin but it had one or two problems of its own and the advent of the Spitfire HF VII put paid to any requirement for it.
306 gallons. P-38 through H model.
290 gallons (1,100 liters). Fw-187 A0.
134 gallons. Whirlwind.
Looks like the Whirlwind is a poor third place in combat radius. Perhaps that explains why RAF Bomber Command didn't use it as an escort fighter.
The lightweight Fw-187 probably had a greater combat radius then the P-38. An ideal bomber escort.
Rolls-Royce DID have the time and resources to concentrate on one type, at a time when they had around four programs on the boil, so why do you think they would choose a 21-litre engine over a 27-litre engine? Cubes count and Rolls-Royce saw the Merlin as the principal breadwinner;
Sorry didnt make myself clear. I didnt mean develop the Peregrine in place of the Merlin. I meant develop the Peregrine concurrently using the same technology as the real life Merlin, a mini me Merlin in other word. Obviously we know in real life Rolls Royce didnt have the capacity and it would have been a waste to develop an engine for just one aircraft but its nice to dream.
In my dream somebody shoots the Vulture engine in the head while it is still on the drawing board (although that does hurt the two stage Merlin) which frees up design staff and production capability for around 800-1000 Peregrines.
Designing a two stage system for it would probably take up too much time though. as would modifying the airframe to take it.
Simply putting a two speed drive to the existing super charger would free up a fair amount of power at sea level and for take-off though. And if you could use the Merlin 45-47 supercharger design and 9lbs of boost you might get close to 900hp at 23,000ft instead of 15,000ft like the originals. You might have around 1000hp per engine at sea level instead of the 775hp of the original too.
You wouldn't have to design and fit the 1st stage and the intercooler and you wouldn't have to find space for the inter-cooler radiators.
They were scheming a MK II version with a fuselage tank ( I believe 37 Gals?) .
I believe the fuel tank capacities for the Whirlwind that have been given are in Imperial gallons would should close the gap somewhat but not enough to turn it into a true long range escort although a pair of 44 gallon drop tanks might have helped there.
There were 2 different trials installations of 4 belt fed cannon.
Historically RAF Bomber Command conducted daytime bombing through December 1939 and then switched to night bombing to avoid being shot to pieces by German fighter aircraft. This kept bomber losses down until the Luftwaffe developed an effective night fighter force but also rendered RAF Bomber Command ineffective for the next several years. During the early war period the average RAF bomber crew couldn't find a factory at night, much less hit it.
But what if RAF heavy bombers of 1939 to 1942 were escorted by sizable numbers of Whirlwind fighter aircraft? With drop tanks the Whirlwind can probably escort as far as the Ruhr. The bombers might hit something of military value if bombing during the daytime.
I don't think so.
RAF Bomber Command flew their first mission against Germany one day after Britain declared war. The final mission against Germany was flown 4 May 1945. For almost 6 years there were bombing raids every month. In fact the so called "Battle of Britain" was not a one sided affair. Britain was bombing Germany at the same time Germany was bombing Britain. RAF Bomber Command lost more aircrew during the BoB then RAF Fighter Command.
Given the massive and continuous British effort to operate heavy bombers I think it quite reasonable to spend a bit on a long range escort fighter.
Total Aircraft Lost - 8,655 (2.58%)