Westland Whirlwind vs Fw-187 vs P-38

[DonL]

A mosquito, for most of the war could outrun single engined fighters and so could choose whether to fight or not. With 4 cannon and 4 machine guns if it hit a single engined fighter it would cause serious damage. With any combat twin or single engined the winner is the one with the crucial advantage.

I absolutely agree!
The Mosquito was in it's one league for speed and firepower.

This is one of the reasons why I'm so convinced of the FW 187. She is exact in between the Westland Whirlwind and the the Mosquito. So I think the FW 187 could combine both good characteristics.

 

[davebender]

The F7F was not certified ready for combat until July 1945. By then the competition consists of Me-262 jet fighters plus late model piston engine fighters like the Spitfire XIV, Do-335, P-51H and Ta-152H. Much stiffer competition then what the Whirlwind, Fw-187 and P-38 had to face during 1939 to 1942.

 

[tail end charlie]

I absolutely agree!
The Mosquito was in it's one league for speed and firepower.

This is one of the reasons why I'm so convinced of the FW 187. She is exact in between the Westlad Whirlwind and the the Mosquito. So I think the FW 187 could combine both good characteristics.

I suppose it depends what you are doing with it and a twin engined plane has 2 engines, for all sides engine production was a factor at times, unless a twin is significantly better you are wasting resources.

Don I spent a depressingly large part of my life in Niedersachsen near Celle....Nice place but a bit quiet

 

[DonL]

@ davebender

The F7F was not certified ready for combat until July 1945. By then the competition consists of Me-262 jet fighters plus late model piston engine fighters like the Spitfire XIV, Do-335, P-51H and Ta-152H. Much stiffer competition then what the Whirlwind, Fw-187 and P-38 had to face during 1939 to 1942.

I absolutely agree.
But I think an enhanced Fw 187 with DB 605AS or D and the latest versions of the P38 can hold their position.
I don't think that these birds were easy meat compare to the others.

@tail end charlie

I live in Hannover, that's ok. We have a good night life, i think.
Were you a soldier?

 

[tail end charlie]

@ davebender

@tail end charlie

I live in Hannover, that's ok. We have a good night life, i think.
Were you a soldier?

No, I know there were many british squaddies there but I wasnt one of them. There is a specialist stainless steel (edelstahl)company near there , for a while I lived on a farm with an old couple Otto and Hilda, Otto was a soldier in the war protecting airfields it was strange for an english guy to meet someone who actually saw an Me262 fly. Even more strange was he spoke "plat" with his friends, my grandmother spoke "yorkshire dialect" .....they are surprisingly close

 

[Colin1]

Even more strange was he spoke "plat" with his friends, my grandmother spoke "yorkshire dialect" .....they are surprisingly close

Eee baa'gum you schweinhund...

...it's not working for me...

 

[DonL]

for a while I lived on a farm with an old couple Otto and Hilda, Otto was a soldier in the war protecting airfields it was strange for an english guy to meet someone who actually saw an Me262 fly. Even more strange was he spoke "plat" with his friends, my grandmother spoke "yorkshire dialect" .....they are surprisingly close

My Grandmother and all her relatives speak "plat" too. So if the "yorkshire dialect" is something similar i can absolutely follow your description.
But I think for you, it must be hard to apart german and "plat".

Edit: Also I think you and Otto had some great discussions about "birds" and WWII with a good drink?!

 

[tail end charlie]

Eee baa'gum you schweinhund...

...it's not working for me...

Seriously Colin the yorkshire dialect comes from the danes and saxon, Yorkshire was known as the Danelaw before the Norman occupation but the Danes came from present day Noth Germany as well as Denmark.

For example she would say the time 06.35 as five and twenty to seven which is english in the German style
and always put the verb at the end of a sentence, my wife cant follow what they say, she knows the words but not exactly what they are saying LMAO.

 

[tail end charlie]

My Grandmother and all her relatives speak "plat" too. So if the "yorkshire dialect" is something similar i can absolutely follow your description.
But I think for you, it must be hard to apart german and "plat".

Edit: Also I think you and Otto had some great discussions about "birds" and WWII with a good drink?!

I used to drink in a bar where the barmaid spoke Bayerisch, one customer spoke plat, another spoke hoch and the owner was Italian.....Great nights they were

phonetically
Hoch = rous
Plat = root
Bayerisch = Oussie
hoch+plat+bayerisch= OUT (english)





Otto was an old guy, during the D Day landings he was around Calais (somewhere) and must have retreated across Europe. Those must have been terrible times for him and also his wife. He only mentioned it once, he was sort of embarrassed (because I was english) and proud (it was his young life). Like many old people he didnt talk about his experience easily.

 

[Colin1]

Seriously Colin the yorkshire dialect comes from the danes and saxon

TEC
I don't doubt it, I was just pulling your leg

 

[DonL]

I used to drink in a bar where the barmaid spoke Bayerisch, one customer spoke plat, another spoke hoch and the owner was Italian.....Great nights they were

phonetically
Hoch = rous
Plat = root
Bayerisch = Oussie
hoch+plat+bayerisch= OUT (english)

At this moment I´m still laughing. Yes it can be realy funny to be with mixed people and dialects and foreign languages in between and this in a rural environment .

Otto was an old guy, during the D Day landings he was around Calais (somewhere) and must have retreated across Europe. Those must have been terrible times for him and also his wife. He only mentioned it once, he was sort of embarrassed (because I was english) and proud (it was his young life). Like many old people he didnt talk about his experience easily.

I can follow this. I only get the brothers of my Grandmother to talk about WWII, when they drink a lot. Then they are more relaxed. But these times are over because they are stone old now.

 

[tail end charlie]

TEC
I don't doubt it, I was just pulling your leg

LOL since my wife couldnt understand either she thinks they speak the same language, she can tell the french are different coz they shrug their shoulders and the italians have a mobile phone in their hand

 

[tail end charlie]

At this moment I´m still laughing. Yes it can be realy funny to be with mixed people and dialects or foreign languages in between and this in a rural environment .
I can follow this. I only get the brothers of my Grandmother to talk about WWII, when they drink a lot. Then they are more relaxed. But this times are over because they are stone old now.

Well during D Day three of my family and Otto were separated by approximately 40Km, he was a nice guy and a gent, Hilda was the very image of my grandmother. It was a pleasure to meet then and if you like lay some ghosts to rest.

I did meet one guy who was a real laugh, he spoke english when I had no german, during the war he was buried alive by a shell for 4 hours ended up as a prisoner of war and after the war worked for the army driving transporters, we had some great nights together.

 

[DonL]

I did meet one guy who was a real laugh, he spoke english when I had no german, during the war he was buried alive by a shell for 4 hours ended up as a prisoner of war and after the war worked for the army driving transporters, we had some great nights together.

I can imagine......

 

[DonL]

Obviously the Avro Anson is right up there
quote
In June 1940, a flight of three Ansons was attacked by nine Luftwaffe Messerschmitt Bf 109s. Remarkably, the Ansons downed two German aircraft "and damaging a third before the 'dogfight' ended" [2], without losing any of their own
unquote

I dont know if I believe the above but I have read it in several places, must be the best piece of shooting in the war!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is a joke or?
The Bf 109 pilots must be talking about their girl friends last night and at this moment very graphic, otherwise i can't imagine this incident. Lol.

 

[tail end charlie]

This is a joke or?
The Bf 109 pilots must be talking about their girls last night and at this moment very graphic, otherwise i can't imagine this incident. Lol.

Seriously I have read that on 2 sites, since the anson had one forward firing gun and one rear firing it must have been a miracle if it ever happened. I dont know if you just looked up the anson but I cannot imagine a bigger miss match lol 1 Bf109 has more fire power than all three ansons.

Maybe the ansons used their speed and manouverability to advantage

 

[DonL]

Yes i have looked up the anson!!!

Realy these must be outstanding girls and one of the best descriptions of a very successfuly night to justfy this incident!......

Maybe the ansons used their speed and manouverability to advantage

Yeah! They have pushed the engines to maximum speed (at least 600 km/h ) dive away and had shown "one finger". Lol.

If it is true i can't say something to this, i'm lost for words.

 

[Milosh]

Just because it is on a couple of sites doesn't mean much. Look at the number of 'copy and paste's saying the 109K-4 had MG151 cowl guns.

Ansons aren't that hard to fly. My father piloted them and he wasn't a pilot, though aircrew. He has told stories of non pilots landing and taking-off in them. This ended when a seagull crashed through the nose on take-off and the Anson crashed (no fatalities).

 

[tail end charlie]

Just because it is on a couple of sites doesn't mean much. Look at the number of 'copy and paste's saying the 109K-4 had MG151 cowl guns.

Ansons aren't that hard to fly. My father piloted them and he wasn't a pilot, though aircrew. He has told stories of non pilots landing and taking-off in them. This ended when a seagull crashed through the nose on take-off and the Anson crashed (no fatalities).

like I said I dont know if I believe it but the two sites didnt give exactly the same account ( and I dont know if that is good or bad)


I dont know if you read the origin of this but it started as which twin engine fighter was a match for a single engined fighter,
I just thought proposing the anson was a bit off the wall, bearing in mind that quote.

 

[DonL]

I suppose it depends what you are doing with it and a twin engined plane has 2 engines, for all sides engine production was a factor at times, unless a twin is significantly better you are wasting resources.

This is one of the key questions!!!

I think the FW 187 beats the Me 110 in most of the important issues. The only points she can't match is weight loading and punch! But she is faster, can turn, climb and increase speed better and had the same endurance. The punch and weight loading are minimally worse for the missions!

And with the DB 605, to my opinion she is superior to the Bf 109 G6 from speed, climbing and increase speed and equal in turning. So if you watch the problems of the LW with nightfighters (Mosquito Plague) and the disadvantage at speed and high altitudes at 1943/44 what will be your technical decision?.