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The Whirlwind is a nice looking aircraft. That Gloster F.9/37 is ugly as sin.
You are what?Glider I ám Gajdos surprised
You are what?
Glider I ám Gajdos surprised you are unaware of this, it is pretty well known in literature and post war official histories. I suggest u do ur own research for these so-called Daventry figures, named after the BBC station Thatcher broadcasted them. Price would be a good start.
I don't think so.
RAF Bomber Command flew their first mission against Germany one day after Britain declared war. The final mission against Germany was flown 4 May 1945. For almost 6 years there were bombing raids every month. In fact the so called "Battle of Britain" was not a one sided affair. Britain was bombing Germany at the same time Germany was bombing Britain. RAF Bomber Command lost more aircrew during the BoB then RAF Fighter Command.
Given the massive and continuous British effort to operate heavy bombers I think it quite reasonable to spend a bit on a long range escort fighter.
The british like the Germans switched quickly from day to night bombing then developed night time escort fighters to protect them. The Americans tried daylight bombing but found they needed an escort fighter and stopped their mission until new bombers and fighter were available. Stopping fighting for a while wasnt an option for the british or germans.
The british like the Germans switched quickly from day to night bombing then developed night time escort fighters to protect them. The Americans tried daylight bombing but found they needed an escort fighter and stopped their mission until new bombers and fighter were available. Stopping fighting for a while wasnt an option for the british or germans.
The problem with the Peregrine was that its design was half a generation behind that of the Merlin; essentially it was a developed Kestral. Physically there wasn't much difference in size between the Peregine and Merlin although the capacity of the engine was only 21 Litres. Overall the Merlin was a more efficient engine. I guess the question the AM and R-R needed to ask was was it worth developing a less efficient, older engine, which was used operationally on one aircraft type, alongside of a more efficient design which was used on lots of operational aircraft?
The two fuselage fuel tanks would help prevent balance/trim problems. Is the FW 187 capacity in US gallons or Imperial gallons?There were two extra fuel tanks mooted for the Whirlwind II; one of 27 gallons in the forward fuselage, and one of 33 gal in the rear fuselage which made a total capacity of 194 gal. A couple of 44 gallon drop tanks would have increased fuel capacity to 282 gallons (290 Fw 187).
Another twin Peregrine/Bristol Taurus fighter which flew was the
Wingspan: 50ft
Length: 37ft
Wing Area: 386 Sq Ft
Weight Maximum Loaded: 11,615 lb
Fuel: 170 gallons
Max Speed: 330 mph (Peregrines) 361 Mph (Taurus)
Armament: 4 x .303 + 2x 20mm Hispano with an alternative 4 x 20 mm Hispano
Apparently this aircraft was extremely manouevrable and much easier to fly than the Whirlwind.
Yes I agree, but the daylight bombing raids of the USAAF were the knockout for the german armaments industry.
You can't be this accurate with night bombing raids. T
For reality the RAF didn't need a longrange escort fighter because of the help from USAAF from 1942.
So they took the resources for a longrange escort fighter to other projects.
The RAF on it's own could use a long range escort fighter for day bombing.
For the german LW a long range escort fighter would make sense in offensive and defensive missions.
To my my opinion at the defending of the Reich from 1942/43 till end of war, it would be elemental to have the opportunity to built a focal point, through a concentration of fighters, to attack at one point with the chance of air supermarcy at this moment This was impossible with the Bf 109 because she was to short legged besides other problems.
I think a tandem between the FW 187 for attacking USAAF escort fighters and the FW 190 to attack bombers would be much more effective in the years 1943/44 than the tandem Bf 109 and FW 190.
If we look at the tandem Ta 152 H1 and Me 262 it is apparent.
The Ta 152 H1 had an internal fuel capacity of 1040l and a range of someting about 1500km only with inline fuel. So I think the LW was aware later in the war of this opportunity to built concentations at a certain point.
Any aircraft can carry drop tanks and practically all fighter aircraft did for long range missions including the P-38. That isn't the same as having an internal fuel capacity of 290 gallons. Add a couple of Luftwaffe standard 300 liter drop tanks and Fw-187 total fuel capacity is over 500 gallons. Drop tanks get you to the target. Internal fuel is for aerial combat and (hopefully) returning home.A couple of 44 gallon drop tanks would have increased fuel capacity to 282 gallons (290 Fw 187).
Any aircraft can carry drop tanks and practically all fighter aircraft did for long range missions including the P-38. That isn't the same as having an internal fuel capacity of 290 gallons. Add a couple of Luftwaffe standard 300 liter drop tanks and Fw-187 total fuel capacity is over 500 gallons .
What do you mean when you say the Americans 'stopped their mission' until new bombers and fighters were available???
There was no such 'stoppage' although the 8th AF did not fly deep penetrations as far as Munich or Leipzig for a period of time after October 14, 1943 to February 1944. That had the effect of 'licking their wounds' after the 60ships shot down on the October 14 Black Thursday trip to Schweinfurt.
The effect of reducing the long range targeting was to reduce 8th AF losses until the Mustangs and Lightnings became operational during the next four months. Big Week in late February 1944 was the opening of the complete Germany, Czechoslovakia, Poland target portfolio for the rest of the war.
The 8th AF BC did not get 'new bombers' but did replace lost inventories of B-24s and B-17s.
The 12th and 15th AF did not restrict themselves from any targets in Germany, Rumania and Austria at any time.
Remember that later P-38s (the ones that did the long range escort duties in the winter of 43-44) carried 410 US gallons for their nominal 1425 Hp engines.
To get the range and armament package of the P-38 with the P-38s performance you are going to need a plane about the size, weight and power of the P-38. The P-38s gun armament with ammo was over 1300lbs. While the 20mm might run dry after 15 seconds of firing time the .50cal guns were good for 33-34 seconds of firing time. Perhaps this was too much but it sure beats the 6-8 seconds of firing time for the Whirlwind and FW 187 20mm cannon as built. Something to consider for "escort" fighters.
To get the range and armament package of the P-38 with the P-38s performance you are going to need a plane about the size, weight and power of the P-38.
That statement is wrong.
The Fw 187 could carry 8200kg as take off weight. That was was the maximal take off weight for a 2 seater Nightfighter with the same measurements as the single seater escort fighter.
The Fw 187 had one 880 Ltr tank in the fuselage and in each wing one 210 Ltr.tank.
That's for the inline fuel plus 900 Ltr. in one or two external tanks. That's 2200Ltr.
If I have done the maths correct this are 581 US gallons. And I think the FW 187 had enough space to carry ammo.
And the external tanks could get larger because the FW 187 single seater escort fighter had plenty of reserves for weight loading
The Peregrine was never a really practical engine past 1941-42, it just didn't have the capacity, but then neither was the Bristol Taurus, same reason, just too small to bother with.
I would be interested in finding out just how much of the Kestral was carried over to the Peregrine aside from the bore and stroke. It did manage to gain around 140-175lbs over the Kestral and is supposed to have used some Merlin features. I am not sure how much feed back there was from the Vulture program although that engine did use wider spacing between cylinders. (supposedly so a later version could use Merlin pistons?) At any rate the Vulture MK V was rated at 1840HP at 3000rpm/9lb boost at 20,250 ft so half of that would be 920hp. the extra 35hp isn't much but the extra 5,000ft of altitude would be useful.
Again just dreaming
I didn't think the Whirlwind was that hard to fly. While it was 'hot' for a 1940 airplane it seems to have been well liked by the pilots that flew it and compared to other fighters coming on line in 1942-43 (Hawker Typhoons and P-47s) it take -off and landing runs don't seem to be that far out of line.
The Gloster with it's bigger wing and lower wing loading should be more maneuverable and with the second seat more adaptable as a night fighter. It would need more fuel (were second seat is?) for use as an escort fighter just as the Whirlwind would. It also needs improved engines in order to be successful. Even improved Pergrines might not be enough and while the speed figures with the Taurus look good it seems there was trouble with this engine model and when the plane was re-powered with an Taurus engine closer to production standard the speed fell to 331mph at 15,000ft. Most other Taurus engines were set up for low altitude work with peak HP coming in at 3,500-4,000ft. Given the 1000lb weight difference between the Gloster and Whirlwind this plane might be better candidate for Merlins (assuming you can find them).