soaringtractor
Banned
- 33
- May 8, 2014
BUT.....Many of those 1940's aircraft were still around at the end of the war and doing a good service !!!! P38 p39 p40's, P47's older shitfires and Hurrycanes, Mk I & II Mustangs.........and others......
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BUT.....Many of those 1940's aircraft were still around at the end of the war and doing a good service !!!! P38 p39 p40's, P47's older shitfires and Hurrycanes, Mk I & II Mustangs.........and others......If a 1940's fighter was good enough in 1945 they wouldn't have developed 1945 fighters.
There was no P-38 (introduced 1941), P-39 (introduced 1941), P-47 (introduced 1942) or Mustang I (introduced 1942) around in 1940.BUT.....Many of those 1940's aircraft were still around at the end of the war and doing a good service !!!! P38 p39 p40's, P47's older shitfires and Hurrycanes, Mk I & II Mustangs.........and others......
I wouldn't except to see an attack bird intercepting and shadowing a Bear. That seems more a job for the Corsair II's sibling, the F-8 Crusader.
To further this there were two squadrons of Mustang Is left in 1945, they were doing work but it was tactical reconnaissance, not air superiority or fighter bombing.There was no P-38 (introduced 1941), P-39 (introduced 1941), P-47 (introduced 1942) or Mustang I (introduced 1942) around in 1940.
F-1 production was limited ~200. last delivery were contemporary to early F-2 delivery. Luftwaffe don't use squadrons, i suppose that the F-1 never full equipped a Gruppe
Staffel = squadron; iirc it was only a few F-0 or F-1 's that went into action in October '40, and then flown by a senior officer, perhaps Galland or Mölders?
To add to that, the A6M5 was still scoring victories against Allied types by 1944, but their victories were coming few and far between and the vast majority of the A6M types (including the A6M7) were relegated to "special attack" (kamikaze) missions in the final months of the war.
There was no P-38 (introduced 1941), P-39 (introduced 1941), P-47 (introduced 1942) or Mustang I (introduced 1942) around in 1940.
It is doubtful either of those would have done well against an A6M5, let alone something like the Ki-84, if either of the Japanese aircraft were flown by a competent pilot.
T!
XP-47 first flew 5-41; MkI Mustang 4-41, Mustang II 2-43,BUT.....Many of those 1940's aircraft were still around at the end of the war and doing a good service !!!! P38 p39 p40's, P47's older shitfires and Hurrycanes, Mk I & II Mustangs.........and others......
That's sort of a tough call in some respects.And even at that the later A6M5s had a different engine than the A6M2s, much improved, heavier firepower and some protection being fitted.
So what is a 1939-40 fighter in 1944-45?
a fighter in it's 1939-40 configuration or a fighter that was first flown in 1939-40 but extensively modified by 1944-45?
What is a 1944-45 fighter?
A modified 1941-43 fighter or a brand new design flown in 1944-45?
If the later the US is down to the F8F for the Navy and P-80 for the Army (depends on how you classify the P-51H)
the Luftwaffe Staffeln is not comparable with the RAF Squadron, same is true for the Gruppe, because a LW Staffeln is smaller of a RAF Squadron and the LW Gruppe is larger.
imho we only knew the name of the senior officers because this are famous not because they are the alone that fly the new F
Afaik the pilot paper strength of RAF fighter squadron was 26, that of a Gruppe was 3912 aircraft in a Staffel, also 12 in a RAF Squadron + 4 spares/ reserve aircraft (that is my understanding, correct me if I am wrong). Over the Channel in '41/ '42 Fighter Command was operating usually with 10-12 aircraft per squadron. The Gruppe compares pretty much in number of aircraft to a RAF wing of 3 squadrons in the early to mid-war period.
False, the F-1 go in combat in october '40, the production started in july '40
Wrong. Quote your source, please.
The first example of a Friedrich first flew in July 1940, but it was an Emil converted, not a proper Friedrich - Wk Nr 5604, first flight as converted on 10 July 1940. 20 (one of my sources states 10) pre-production Bf 109F-0s began construction in October 1940, but these did not enter Luftwaffe frontline squadron service. The first F-1s off the production line took place in November 1940, and did not enter Luftwaffe service until March 1941, with JG 2 and JG 26. These were replaced by F-2s, which began rolling off the production line in February 1941.
Sources, Messerschmitt Bf 109 F-K Development, Testing, Production Willy Radinger and Wolfgang Otto (Schiffer, 1999), The Augsburg Eagle A Documentary History, Messerschmitt Bf 109, William Green (Janes, 1971), German Aircraft of the Second World War by J.R. Smith and Antony Kay (Putnam, 1972), Messerschmitt Bf 109 by Robert Grinsell (Bonanza, 1980)
However is relative common use modified old variant as prototype of a new variant. and is not rare that the production start before of prototype first flight
This is true Vincenzo, but in this example, your dates are incorrect by months. The Friedrich did not enter frontline squadron service with the Luftwaffe until February 1941 and production did not begin on the F-1 until November 1940, which is what you accused me of being false about. The F-0 began production in October but these saw squadron service evaluation, not frontline service and combat. At the time JG 26 received its first F-1s it was based in France.
From Radinger and Otto: Bf 109F-01 V21 D-IFKQ: CE+BN Wk Nr 6502. Bf 109F-02 V22 D-IRRQ: CE+BO Wk Nr 1800, Bf 109F-03 V23 CE+BP Wk Nr 5603, Bf 109F-04 V24 VK+AB Wk Nr 5604. These aircraft were the four Friedrich prototypes, but were built as Emils and had different components of the Fs incorporated into their structure. The first with the new wing was the V23 prototype, the two previous aircraft still had the Emil wing. Radinger and Otto quotes Wk Nr 5604 as flying on 16 June 1941 with Fritz Wendel at the controls (page 65), which is an obvious typo because it should be a year sooner, as opposed to 10 June 1940 as I quoted above from Smith and Kay (German Aircraft of the Second World War, Putnam).