What if the Americans never made any mistakes in their procurement decisions.

Kevin J · Feb 19, 2020

The only possible mistake that I can see is:-
1. Not making any F5F Skyrockets.
2. Building the Buccaneer / Bermuda.
The only problem here is that if Skyrocket production is subcontracted to Brewster, its sure to be a failure.
3. Not enough Dominators built. I'd have used R-2800s without turbo superchargers to power it.

Any more ideas, guys?

Peter Gunn · Feb 19, 2020

Send a team of covert operatives to England, cronk Stanley Hooker over the head and spirit him to Detroit, chain him to a bench at the Allison division of GM and say "Supercharger".

Kevin J · Feb 19, 2020

Peter Gunn said:
Send a team of covert operatives to England, cronk Stanley Hooker over the head and spirit him to Detroit, chain him to a bench at the Allison division of GM and say "Supercharger".

I thought he stumbled on the supercharger idea by accident. Nice idea though.

pbehn · Feb 19, 2020

Those are the only mistakes made? Take a look at what aircraft the USA had in service at the time of Pearl Harbor and think again.

Kevin J · Feb 19, 2020

pbehn said:
Those are the only mistakes made? Take a look at what aircraft the USA had in service at the time of Pearl Harbor and think again.

There's nothing wrong with either a P-40B/C or F4F-3 Wildcat vs the Zero. The problem at Pearl was the warning signs were ignored. The Japanese midget sub sunk, the radar readings being ignored. Even a P-36a scored a victory at Pearl.

XBe02Drvr · Feb 19, 2020

"What if the Americans never made any mistakes in their procurement decisions?"
You mean, like the mighty British?
Never happen! We're uniquely American.

pbehn · Feb 19, 2020

Kevin J said:
There's nothing wrong with either a P-40B/C or F4F-3 Wildcat vs the Zero. The problem at Pearl was the warning signs were ignored. The Japanese midget sub sunk, the radar readings being ignored. Even a P-36a scored a victory at Pearl.

I just mean the numbers in service, not the design.

Kevin J · Feb 19, 2020

pbehn said:
I just mean the numbers in service, not the design.

IIRC, the IJN only had about 300 Zeroes. The USN had 195 F4F-3, 131 P-40B, 193 P-40C plus P-38's, P-39's, P-40E's. Scattered around the Pacific and the continental USA. What's that? Another 1000 fighters?

XBe02Drvr · Feb 19, 2020

Kevin J said:
IIRC, the IJN only had about 300 Zeroes. The USN had 195 F4F-3, 131 P-40B, 193 P-40C plus P-38's, P-39's, P-40E's. Scattered around the Pacific and the continental USA. What's that? Another 1000 fighters?

What counts is the numbers on scene, not the numbers in service. And the numbers alone don't tell the story; as we all know, tactics and training were inappropriate for the threat at hand, due to lack of intelligent use of available intelligence.
Cheers,
Wes

pbehn · Feb 19, 2020

Kevin J said:
IIRC, the IJN only had about 300 Zeroes. The USN had 195 F4F-3, 131 P-40B, 193 P-40C plus P-38's, P-39's, P-40E's. Scattered around the Pacific and the continental USA. What's that? Another 1000 fighters?

Basically I meant a change to the politics and procurement with everything pushed 18 months to 2 years back in terms of the urgency of the situation. going back to the early 30s, but in a democracy such things arent easy.

syscom3 · Feb 19, 2020

pbehn said:
Those are the only mistakes made? Take a look at what aircraft the USA had in service at the time of Pearl Harbor and think again.

Look at all the aircraft designs that were in the prototype stage in Dec 1942.

There was nothing wrong with what we had at that time.

nuuumannn · Feb 19, 2020

XBe02Drvr said:
You mean, like the mighty British?
Never happen! We're uniquely American.

Winston Churchill once said, "You can count on Americans to do the right thing, after they've tried everything else!"

GrauGeist · Feb 19, 2020

pbehn said:
I just mean the numbers in service, not the design.

The U.S. was on the tail-end of the great depression and the military budget was less than a shoe-string.

Which is one reason that Pearl Harbor was a debacle - the Navy's budget dictated that all non-essential personnel would not be on duty on the weekends due to payroll cuts.

Add to that, short-staffing and limited asset purchases (by all branches).

Shortround6 · Feb 19, 2020

Peter Gunn said:
Send a team of covert operatives to England, cronk Stanley Hooker over the head and spirit him to Detroit, chain him to a bench at the Allison division of GM and say "Supercharger".

Unfortunately that would be another American Mistake. Allison was in Indianapolis Indiana.

Peter Gunn · Feb 20, 2020

Shortround6 said:
Unfortunately that would be another American Mistake. Allison was in Indianapolis Indiana.

When you're born and raised in the Metro Detroit area, ALL GM divisions are in DEETROIT...

XBe02Drvr · Feb 20, 2020

Peter Gunn said:
When you're born and raised in the Metro Detroit area, ALL GM divisions are in DEETROIT...

Another all-American top-down solution! Got to process him in with HR before you can put him to work.

Kevin J · Feb 20, 2020

Actually, you could probably add the early version P-39's. If us Brits thought in October 41 that it would take 6 months to wring out the bugs, and the Soviets didn't deploy it till summer 42, then the USAAF deployment of it to the Pacific in early 42 was clearly premature, earning itself not the best of reputations.

Peter Gunn · Feb 24, 2020

Also, both Indianapolis and Indiana are figments of imagination, they don't really exist.

michael rauls · Feb 24, 2020

Maybe this is as much a design discision as procurement but no drop tanks for the p47 comes to mind.

XBe02Drvr · Feb 24, 2020

Peter Gunn said:
Also, both Indianapolis and Indiana are figments of imagination, they don't really exist.

Kinda like Shangri-la, huh? Lest ye forget what came out of Shangri-la on Patriots Day 1942, even mythical places can bite you in the butt if you show it at them.

What if the Americans never made any mistakes in their procurement decisions.

Banned

Master Sergeant

Banned

Colonel

Banned

2nd Lieutenant

Colonel

Banned

2nd Lieutenant

Colonel

Pacific Historian

Major

Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung

Lieutenant General

Master Sergeant

2nd Lieutenant

Banned

Master Sergeant

Tech Sergeant

2nd Lieutenant

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