What is it with Heinkel products?

Germany was the largest aircraft producer in the world by 1935

Click to expand...

I think the German problem was mostly related to aircraft engine production. They had all sorts of good airframe designs (He-100, Fw-187, Do-217, Fw-190C, Me-410, Ju-288 etc.) which might have entered mass production or been produced in larger numbers if adequate numbers of modern aircraft engines had been available. Germany produced plenty of aluminum to build airframes but that doesn't do any good without engines to power them.

Erich said:

back to the original posters thread question


in a word H products sucked, he never had the proper tech crews nor the financial backing to carry any of his innovative ideas beyond almost an experimental stage

Click to expand...

I'm not sure I'd have used the same language, but that is in fact an answer I was looking for. Other than the He-111, He-115, and a few really minor types, it has always struck me that Heinkel planes during the late 1930's and early 1940's suffered from too much innovation (He-100, He-219, He-119, He-177), were overly complex (He-112A, He-219, He-118 ), took too long to perfect (He-112B, He-219), or were developed before suitable engines and other technologies were ready (He-280). On the surface, these are some very advanced planes, creating fertile ground for theories that prejudice against Heinkel governed the RLM's purchasing decisions. In fact the simple truth is that other manufacturers understood better what the immediate needs of the Luftwaffe were and developed simpler, more reliable, and more easily manufactured designs that were also as good or better than Heinkel's planes.

No doubt Heinkel did eventually suffer from prejudice, but much of that was probably self-inflicted, based on his attitude after the He-112A lost out (quite justifiably, luckily for Germany) to the Bf-109, which just happens to have been one of the finest fighters ever designed and built.

So was the Heinkel HeS 30 a good engine? According to the well known source of reliable information Wikipedia "Of all of the early engines, the HeS 30 was by far the best design."

as I said earlier Ernst did not have the means with limited financial backing to produce his plans without bugs. his smaller bi-planes were of useage for training and for night ground attack sorties on the eastern front. his Uhu 219 could of been the prime LW NF had there been more of production and limitations on the amount of variants in place. his-tech crews did not seem to hear the voices of the pilots/crews that a rear ward firing gun was needed along with a third crew-member, and armament was too powerful, rear warning radar was not standard and it appears that the LW higherarchy was just too plain scared to go off on a new tangents with aircraft but content on using old style airframes like the Bf 110G-4 which was already outdated by 1942 and the more streamlined versions of the Ju 88 into the G variant

"Of all of the early engines, the HeS 30 was by far the best design."

Click to expand...

During 1943 the Jumo004A engine passed several 100 hour endurance tests. I doubt any other jet engine comes close in reliability at such an early date.

Von Ohain said after the war that it was.Me I look at the fact that it under 800lb's and was said to use 40 lass fuel.

Heinkel HeS 30 Engine.
Heinkel HeS 30 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

it was not until May 1942 that the first engine actually ran

Click to expand...

by October it was running at full speed.

Click to expand...

If these statements are true the HeS 30 engine didn't even operate at full power (miniscule as it was) until October 1942. That puts it considerably behind Jumo004A engine development.

Jumo004A engine timeline.
11 Oct 1940.
Jumo004A engine runs for the first time. 19 months earlier then the HeS 30 engine.

January 1941.
Jumo004A engine runs at full power. 19 months earlier then the HeS 30 engine.

December 1941.
Jumo004A engine passes 10 hour endurance test. When did the HeS 30 engine reach this milestone?

January 1942.
Jumo004A engine enters low rate production. At this point the HeS 30 engine has yet to run.

18 July 1942.
Me-262 prototype flies for the first time powered by Jumo004 engines. Meanwhile the HeS 30 engine has yet to run at full power.

Looks to me like the He-100 and He-118 story all over again. Heinkel HeS 30 engine development was 19 months behind the competition. Can 1942 Germany afford to forego production of the Me-262 powered by Jumo004 engines while waiting for Heinkel to catch up? I don't think so.

Jabberwocky said:

An interesting read on the development of aircraft production from the 1930s through to the end of the war.

Aircraft production - Parts 12



Germany was the largest aircraft producer in the world by 1935, at least in terms of raw aircraft numbers. It is a little more difficult to quantify airframe weight though.

Click to expand...

Considering your erroneous numbers for soviet union, it may be impressive. I mean german production.

For sure, the 1935th year was a crisis one for soviet industry, but only due to organisationnal problems (quinquennal plans) not industry means failure

1935: 2 592 planes

but in 1933 and 1934 soviets produced some 4 116 + 4 354 ones

in 1936: 4 270
1937: 6 039
1938: 7 727
1939: 10 362 (might be a type mimatch for the 6) *
*from Miroslav Morozov. soviet industry NKOP archives
and the same for 1941: 10585.
For the others years i'v got the same numbers.

Once that corrected, axis production advance in early 30's was not such impressive.

In the immediate lead-up to the war British and US production escalates far more rapidly than German production.

Click to expand...

Nevertheless, the quality and quantity production growth of two strong in economical and industrial health countries as USA an GB is quite impressive...

Regards