What were the best cost effective fighters of the postwar era?

[bf109xxl]

Right, which is exactly why I wrote "... though they weren't killed."

I guess that makes everything okey-dokey, hey we only stuck them in mental asylums, but hey-ho.

Ones again: Shcharansky suffered for his open public activities. During Stalin's time, the vast majority of scientists were repressed on fabricated charges. The regime stopped killing highly qualified personnel on a large scale in the 1940s.

 

[bf109xxl]

Yep. People were imprisoned by Stalin and still forced to work to his ends in order to, you know, not be sent to Karaganda or other, worse places. Pretty as they were, sharashkas were still prisons.

Karaganda was not a terrible place, KarLAG was just one of the biggest labor camp administrations. There were much worse places - Vorkuta, Salekhard, Kolyma.
The conditions of imprisonment in the "sharagas" were very different from the usual prison conditions.

We can discuss forced prison labor in another forum where such a topic won't broach forum rules.

Then why did you even bring it up here? Besides, it's obvious that you don't know much about it.

I'll suffice to say that if you're forcing labor in incarceration, it's probably not a level playing-field. Your mileage might vary.

I never claimed to agree with Stalin's methods of coercion. I was merely trying to demonstrate the difference between the USSR and China in the 1960s. I'm sorry you didn't understand that.

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

Karaganda was not a terrible place, KarLAG was just one of the biggest labor camp administrations. There were much worse places - Vorkuta, Salekhard, Kolyma.
The conditions of imprisonment in the "sharagas" were very different from the usual prison conditions.

Then why did you even bring it up here? Besides, it's obvious that you don't know much about it.

I never claimed to agree with Stalin's methods of coercion. I was merely trying to demonstrate the difference between the USSR and China in the 1960s. I'm sorry you didn't understand that.

Your condescension isn't really necessary, is it? Or ... is it?

I'll be honest, I don't think much of anyone who takes a difference of opinion as evidence of ignorance. I think that's where I'll file you.

 

[swampyankee]

Trying to get back on topic (hah!), "effective" can be so defined that a YF-12 could be "the most cost-effective fighter."

So, the first question is most cost effective for what role? The answer will be very different for a country looking to contribute to collective defense as part of NATO vs one concerned with internal rebellion vs one concerned with defense against peers. After that question is answered, then one can start comparing cost effectiveness.

 

[bf109xxl]

Your condescension isn't really necessary, is it? Or ... is it?

There was no condescension in my words.

I'll be honest, I don't think much of anyone who takes a difference of opinion as evidence of ignorance.

I'll be honest, I don't think much of anyone who considers having their own unsupported opinions to be of any value.

I think that's where I'll file you.

(shrugging) What makes you think I care?

 

[bf109xxl]

"effective" can be so defined that a YF-12 could be "the most cost-effective fighter."

I'd be damn curious to familiarize myself with that logic, I'm not ironic.

So, the first question is most cost effective for what role? The answer will be very different for a country looking to contribute to collective defense as part of NATO vs one concerned with internal rebellion vs one concerned with defense against peers.

This issue has already been brought up starting with post #5. In posting #8 I suggested narrowing the scope and considering a multirole fighter for India or Finland, e.g. in the late 1960s - different time periods can be considered separately. A time chart showing the best choice would be ideal.

After that question is answered, then one can start comparing cost effectiveness.

You can find fragmentary information about the cost of Soviet aircraft in mutual settlements with Vietnam, etc., but I'm not sure these figures can be extrapolated to India or Finland.

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

There was no condescension in my words.

I'll be honest, I don't think much of anyone who considers having their own unsupported opinions to be of any value.

(shrugging) What makes you think I care?

Your continued responses indicate your care. This will be my last response to you, so if you want the last word, make it good.

 

[bf109xxl]

Your continued responses indicate your care.

Nope. I don't care about your reaction, but I wonder what makes you react that way. Some kind of psychological study.

This will be my last response to you, so if you want the last word, make it good.

If you've decided to ignore me, please do it silently.

 

[GrauGeist]

Nope. I don't care about your reaction, but I wonder what makes you react that way. Some kind of psychological study.

I just assumed your condescending replies are just translation issues...

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

I've done too much distraction here in this thread, so I'm bowing out.

 

[Dimlee]

Someone is wrong on the Internet.
It's not me.

 

[swampyankee]

Someone is wrong on the Internet.
It's not me.

Someone is wrong on the Internet.
It's not me.

Shocking!