What Would Happen if an F-16 and an OV-10 had a real Dogfight?

[MIflyer]

I guess it would look something like this, from 1992:

 

[JoeHouston]

Hi, Mlflyer. Could I ask where you got your file on the Design Analysis of the Republic Seabee from a past post? I can't find a file that is that clean and I'd like to keep one for my records. Thanks for any help!
Joe

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

That Bronco pilot was ass-deep in alligators. I'm wondering why he didn't hug the deck until he could get to those hills.

 

[MIflyer]

Could I ask where you got your file on the Design Analysis of the Republic Seabee from a past post?

Do you mean you cannot find the file on this website or that it is not as clear as you would like?

I do not have anything better or know where you can get it. That file I downloaded from the Av Week website back when I had access to it.

 

[MIflyer]

That Bronco pilot was ass-deep in alligators. I'm wondering why he didn't hug the deck until he could get to those hills.

I think that if the OV-10 pilot really knew what he was doing he could have avoided the F-16. I assume he was doing CAS for the Coup. I see he had his gear down a couple of times and I wonder if he was trying to fly slower. An OV-10 was jumped by Migs over Laos and was able to escape.

 

[JoeHouston]

Do you mean you cannot find the file on this website or that it is not as clear as you would like?

I do not have anything better or know where you can get it. That file I downloaded from the Av Week website back when I had access to

 

[JoeHouston]

Thank you for your message, Mlflyer. I can copy the images but don't see a way to download the file other than that. Yes, just looking for anything a little more clear. I have copies from the Seabee website but they clearly are copied/scanned and less crisp than the one you posted. So yours is still better. So thanks for that, and thanks for the reply.
All the best,
Joe

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

I think that if the OV-10 pilot really knew what he was doing he could have avoided the F-16. I assume he was doing CAS for the Coup. I see he had his gear down a couple of times and I wonder if he was trying to fly slower. An OV-10 was jumped by Migs over Laos and was able to escape.

Sure. He certainly had the turning advantage and used it to do some fine jinking to throw off any lock at first. I couldn't tell if the kill was attained with gunnery or missiles, but it looks like the Vulcan got him.

 

[MIflyer]

Yes, just looking for anything a little more clear.

When I lived in Alexandria VA there was a store, From Out of The Past not far away from my home that sold Library of Congress surplus. I bought some bound copies Aviation magazine so to get the Design Analyses of the P-51 and P-38, which I scanned, so I have higher res examples of those two. They also had a bound volume that had the Seabee article in it, but at $35 each it was a bit too pricey for me to buy more than a couple. I told a Seabee owner I met about it and I guess he bought it because it was no longer there the next time I went back. I was glad to be able to download even a lower resolution example.

I do not know why McGraw Hill does not reprint and publish all of the Design Analysis articles; I think such a book would be a hot seller.

 

[GrauGeist]

I wonder if he put his gear down to indicate surrender - that used to be a fairly accepted practice.

 

[MIflyer]

I was wondering about that, too.

 

[JoeHouston]

When I lived in Alexandria VA there was a store, From Out of The Past not far away from my home that sold Library of Congress surplus. I bought some bound copies Aviation magazine so to get the Design Analyses of the P-51 and P-38, which I scanned, so I have higher res examples of those two. They also had a bound volume that had the Seabee article in it, but at $35 each it was a bit too pricey for me to buy more than a couple. I told a Seabee owner I met about it and I guess he bought it because it was no longer there the next time I went back. I was glad to be able to download even a lower resolution example.

I do not know why McGraw Hill does not reprint and publish all of the Design Analysis articles; I think such a book would be a hot seller.

Sounds like a great book store. Well, thanks for posting that--it's still a better copy than anything else I've seen. I've recently acquired a Seabee and so am in the data collection phase.

All the best,
Joe

 

[MIflyer]

In the Wash DC area we had Seabee parts sitting around. One day in the early 90's at Hyde Field a student pilot in a Cessna 152 went off the runway to the left, smashed through a parked dismantled Ercoupe and hit a Seabee fuselage. They later took the fuselage and threw it into the brush. The other parts were in a hangar. At an airport in Laurel, MD, there was the forward section of a Seabee fuselage abandoned. There should have been enough parts there to build one with a lot of work, but I do not know if anyone availed themselves of that opportunity. Good luck!

 

[JoeHouston]

In the Wash DC area we had Seabee parts sitting around. One day in the early 90's at Hyde Field a student pilot in a Cessna 152 went off the runway to the left, smashed through a parked dismantled Ercoupe and hit a Seabee fuselage. They later took the fuselage and threw it into the brush. The other parts were in a hangar. At an airport in Laurel, MD, there was the forward section of a Seabee fuselage abandoned. There should have been enough parts there to build one with a lot of work, but I do not know if anyone availed themselves of that opportunity. Good luck!

That would be well beyond my capabilities. Although I had a friend who kept his Seabee at Deale and that's where I first was introduced to the Seabee about 30 years ago. But his plane is still flying and not victim of any accident, thankfully.

 

[MIflyer]

That would be well beyond my capabilities. Although I had a friend who kept his Seabee at Deale and that's where I first was introduced to the Seabee about 30 years ago. But his plane is still flying and not victim of any accident, thankfully.

If you go over to Archive.org you can do a search for Aviation magazine of May 1946 and find that whole issue with the Seabee article, but I do not think the quality is any better. You will also find other issues with possible related items such as this:

 

[MIflyer]

That would be well beyond my capabilities

Hey! look what I just found!

 

[JoeHouston]

Hey! look what I just found!

View attachment 648897View attachment 648898

You certainly are an aviation aficionado! lol. That's the Electrol Hydraulic pump--I just had mine serviced by a Seabee community expert in South Carolina.

 

[JoeHouston]

If you go over to Archive.org you can do a search for Aviation magazine of May 1946 and find that whole issue with the Seabee article, but I do not think the quality is any better. You will also find other issues with possible related items such as this:

View attachment 648896

Thanks! I'll do that.

 

[XBe02Drvr]

I couldn't tell if the kill was attained with gunnery or missiles, but it looks like the Vulcan got him.

Spot on! Way too close for a missile, and they make a noticeable flash and smoke trail. The Vulcan makes a barely visible puff of smoke which you can see just as the F16's nose tracks across the OV10's flight path. A brief, faint "brrt" can be heard in the audio. Bronco's goose was cooked. From his behavior, I don't think he thought the F16 would actually shoot. Remember this was domestic politics. In other times they were probably on the same team. I bet he thought the F16 was harassing to drive him off target, otherwise he'd be down in the weeds jinking like a broken field runner. Difficult target for a fast mover, though the F16 is more agile than most.

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

[...] otherwise he'd be down in the weeds jinking like a broken field runner. Difficult target for a fast mover, though the F16 is more agile than most.

Yeah, I was thinking that'd be the Bronc's best tactic. Having been across the runway from GD when they were pumping out -16 Cs and -Ds, they're scary maneuverable (used to watch their acceptance tests, about one every ten days), but random flitting from a target below and close to the clutter would be hard to track and launch, it seems to my non-pilot thinking.

It just surprised me how the OV-10 belched out so much so quickly.