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Steep fjord walls do absolutely nothing to protect from level bombers, they did however block the Tirpitz's own warning radar and FLAK.
The Tirpitz was exceptionally poorly protected, the kriegsmarine reports of the time are emphatic that much more shore based FLAK was needed, in fact I can't even see any FLAK on the photo recon.
The Luftwaffe was exhausted: extremely thinly spread, short on fuel, hadn't been told that the Tirpitz had been moved to a new Fjord, whose defences hadn't been built up. She was sunk in November 1944 as the Luftwaffe was collapsing and was short of men and machines.
The bomb aiming was not remarkable or exceptional from the height it was conducted considering that several dozen tall boys were dropped. It was well within the capability of any competent bomb aimer from the Luftwaffe, USAAF, RAF using a Lotfe 7, Norden or SABS2. Assuming bombing from 14000ft hitting a ship with a 100ft beam represent an error of of 0.7%. An 800ft length would be impossible to miss.
With nearly three dozen bombs dropped its surprising they didn't get more hits suggesting the heavy FLAK distracted the RAF crews somewhat.
Statistically it's the equal of dropping 36 marbles onto a 1cm wide model battleship from waist high. You are bound to get a hit.
No ones heavy AAA worked well at that altitude. The USN Reckoned that 80% of the aircraft it shot down were defended by 40mm bofors and 20mm oerlikon.
How surprising, look my info on Fritz-X accuracy testing vs real attacks in my message on the Ju 388 thread.
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Tirpitz wasn't achored in steep walled fjord, the area around was rather flat for Northern Norway next to Tromso town, look photos
Might also point out that standing over a scale model and dropping marbles is a flawed analogy.
As SR suggested, try it from chest high - while walking
There seems to be a lack of understanding of bombing accuracy.
In the period June-August 1944, shortly before the attack on Tirpitz, 617 Squadron was achieving an average radial error from 17,000ft (just above the level of the Tirpitz attack) of 170 yards (510 ft). This in fact makes it statistically remarkable that they could hit a target measuring 824 ft by 118 ft with so few bombs.
Cheers
Steve
I have Bollinger's book on my kindle. Unsurprisingly you seem to have found (what page I can't find) the worst passible unit performance with the worst possible performance.
The Fjord was high enough to prevent early enough detection or the raiders and allow organisation of interceptors and the smokescreen while RAF planners were able to make use of the difficult terrain to minimise what radar warning time there was.
Is there any information on accuracy specific to tall boy bombing? (or tall boy and grand slam?) Regardless of the other variables in the case of the Tripitz, the ballistics of those bombs should have made for significantly lower errors. (in fact, I wonder if the consistent ballistics of those bombs actually gave them an edge in precision over the guided bombs used during the war)In the period June-August 1944, shortly before the attack on Tirpitz, 617 Squadron was achieving an average radial error from 17,000ft (just above the level of the Tirpitz attack) of 170 yards (510 ft). This in fact makes it statistically remarkable that they could hit a target measuring 824 ft by 118 ft with so few bombs.
Well, if the mission (choose whichever attempt you like) was so successful, why did it take so many attempts to take the Tirpitz out?Hitting a ship with a single bomb was a fantastic achievement in accuracy. Bearing in mind bombs dropped from the same height by whole fleets of bombers were known to miss the given target completely by a wide margin I cannot see how a counter argument is put forward. Not only was the Tirpitz hit but various submarine pens bridges and the V3 launch sites were also taken out. It may annoy some that the Lancaster dropping Tall Boys and Grand slams were extremely accurate and destructive but they must live with their annoyance it is a historical fact and it wasnt chance. In three missions against the Tirpitz, operations paravane obviate and catechism Tirpitz was damaged each time. Additionally the Lutzow was crippled by a near miss and settled on the bottom.
Well, if the mission (choose whichever attempt you like) was so successful, why did it take so many attempts to take the Tirpitz out?
The terrain surrounding the Tirpitz added a high degree of difficulty whereas the mission against the dam offered a much different formula and circumstances for success.
I am surprised that there is so much divergence of opinion on this Tirpitz thing
Yeah, I originally thought of doing that, but then I still don't have its depth. The reason why I want it in the first place is because I'm trying to compare it to that of the He 277.
Didn't I give the outer depth (from the level of the fuselage floor to the outer surface of the bottom of the bomb bay doors?
The difference is really that some seem to think that with the SABS sight hitting a battleship, even stationary, was a simple thing. The SABS sight was not some miraculous instrument, in fact at the same time as 617 Sqn was achieving an average radial error of 170 yards (later improved to 125 yards), 9 Sqn was achieving an error of 195 yards with the Mk XIV sight. The difference was just 25 yards, not as great as some imagine.
I think that hitting a stationary battleship was a remarkable achievement, even given the better sight, and was the result of much time on the practice range. The Tirpitz attackers may have been operating in an era of allied air superiority but they still flew at an altitude above some of the more deadly forms of flak. The higher you fly the less accurately you bomb. The 8th AF considered this one of the most successful aspects of German flak defences.
Anybody know how many large warships, with the exception of Tirpitz, were hit by level bombers flying at 15,000 ft or above in all theatres during WW2?
Cheers
Steve