"Why the P-47 Thunderbolt, a World War II Beast of the Airways, Ruled the Skies" Smithsonian Magazine

[NVSMITH]

-A couple of good photos and a YouTube link
"Remarkably tough, the versatile fighter delivered far more punishment than it took"
"Editor's note, January 24, 2022: This story has been edited to reflect that the Thunderbolt dropped 132,000 tons of bombs during World War II, not 132,000 pounds"
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smithsonian-institution/why-p-47-thunderbolt-world-war-ii-beast-airways-ruled-skies-180976316/

 

[airdave]

I posted this a few years back on another forum...kind of appropriate...
somebody was arguing the virtues of the beautiful B17.

Not really scientific...just a fun comparison.
B-17 Flying Fortress Bomber VS P-47 Thunderbolt Fighter
The beautiful B17 proved its worth in WW2, but when you look at the numbers, it just can't compete with the effectiveness and practicality of the Jug!

Crew required
10 vs 1 ...thats a lot of crew! and training, meals, medical and supplies. And a lot more lives at stake.
Weight
54000lb vs 17500lbs ...considerably more, because its big. Big like the airfield it requires!
Engines
4 vs 1 ...thats 4 times the fuel, 4 times the oil, 4 times the maintenance!
Range
2000mi vs 1030mi ...surprisingly more, but is it?
Speed
287mph vs 426mph ...hmmm ...Jug could land just about anywhere, refuel, and still beat the B17 to target!
Guns
9x 50cal MG stations vs 8x 50cal MG ...B17 has 13 MGs, but spread between 7 crew members, pointing in different directions -versus- one guy firing 8 50cal Guns at ya, all at once! ouch!!
Rockets
0 vs 10 ...yes, I said rockets.
Bomb Payload
4800lbs vs 2500lb ...thats right! The Jug can carry more than half the payload of a B17!
Armor
none vs Cockpit armour plate ...you know you're comin' home in a Jug!

 

[SaparotRob]

Take that, Mosquito!

 

[Snautzer01]

I posted this a few years back on another forum...kind of appropriate...
somebody was arguing the virtues of the beautiful B17.

Not really scientific...just a fun comparison.
B-17 Flying Fortress Bomber VS P-47 Thunderbolt Fighter
The beautiful B17 proved its worth in WW2, but when you look at the numbers, it just can't compete with the effectiveness and practicality of the Jug!

Crew required
10 vs 1 ...thats a lot of crew! and training, meals, medical and supplies. And a lot more lives at stake.
Weight
54000lb vs 17500lbs ...considerably more, because its big. Big like the airfield it requires!
Engines
4 vs 1 ...thats 4 times the fuel, 4 times the oil, 4 times the maintenance!
Range
2000mi vs 1030mi ...surprisingly more, but is it?
Speed
287mph vs 426mph ...hmmm ...Jug could land just about anywhere, refuel, and still beat the B17 to target!
Guns
9x 50cal MG stations vs 8x 50cal MG ...B17 has 13 MGs, but spread between 7 crew members, pointing in different directions -versus- one guy firing 8 50cal Guns at ya, all at once! ouch!!
Rockets
0 vs 10 ...yes, I said rockets.
Bomb Payload
4800lbs vs 2500lb ...thats right! The Jug can carry more than half the payload of a B17!
Armor
none vs Cockpit armour plate ...you know you're comin' home in a Jug!

I think you need to study the B-17 a bit more.

 

[Deleted member 68059]

There was only one plane that made the Germans more annoyed than the B-17, and that was (in my view) the greatest aircraft the British ever produced, and even then,
as you can see there was not a lot in it.

The stuff everyone likes to talk about (Spitfires and most other fighters) just didnt bother then much.

Mustangs, Mosquitos and Fortresses are what kept them awake at night, literally and figuratively.

 

[pbehn]

I posted this a few years back on another forum...kind of appropriate...
somebody was arguing the virtues of the beautiful B17.

Not really scientific...just a fun comparison.
B-17 Flying Fortress Bomber VS P-47 Thunderbolt Fighter
The beautiful B17 proved its worth in WW2, but when you look at the numbers, it just can't compete with the effectiveness and practicality of the Jug!

Crew required
10 vs 1 ...thats a lot of crew! and training, meals, medical and supplies. And a lot more lives at stake.
Weight
54000lb vs 17500lbs ...considerably more, because its big. Big like the airfield it requires!
Engines
4 vs 1 ...thats 4 times the fuel, 4 times the oil, 4 times the maintenance!
Range
2000mi vs 1030mi ...surprisingly more, but is it?
Speed
287mph vs 426mph ...hmmm ...Jug could land just about anywhere, refuel, and still beat the B17 to target!
Guns
9x 50cal MG stations vs 8x 50cal MG ...B17 has 13 MGs, but spread between 7 crew members, pointing in different directions -versus- one guy firing 8 50cal Guns at ya, all at once! ouch!!
Rockets
0 vs 10 ...yes, I said rockets.
Bomb Payload
4800lbs vs 2500lb ...thats right! The Jug can carry more than half the payload of a B17!
Armor
none vs Cockpit armour plate ...you know you're comin' home in a Jug!

The P-47 could land in Belgium to refuel, but you have to capture the Netherlands to take off again!

 

[pbehn]

Take that, Mosquito!

The Mosquito pours foul scorn on this comparison with inferior goods. The US wanted Mosquitos as nightfighters and PR aircraft as they phased the P-47 out of service. Imitation is the most sincere form of flattery, the Germans produced a Moskito, they never produced a "Krug".

 

[GrauGeist]

I posted this a few years back on another forum...kind of appropriate...
somebody was arguing the virtues of the beautiful B17.

Not really scientific...just a fun comparison.
B-17 Flying Fortress Bomber VS P-47 Thunderbolt Fighter
The beautiful B17 proved its worth in WW2, but when you look at the numbers, it just can't compete with the effectiveness and practicality of the Jug!

Crew required
10 vs 1 ...thats a lot of crew! and training, meals, medical and supplies. And a lot more lives at stake.
Weight
54000lb vs 17500lbs ...considerably more, because its big. Big like the airfield it requires!
Engines
4 vs 1 ...thats 4 times the fuel, 4 times the oil, 4 times the maintenance!
Range
2000mi vs 1030mi ...surprisingly more, but is it?
Speed
287mph vs 426mph ...hmmm ...Jug could land just about anywhere, refuel, and still beat the B17 to target!
Guns
9x 50cal MG stations vs 8x 50cal MG ...B17 has 13 MGs, but spread between 7 crew members, pointing in different directions -versus- one guy firing 8 50cal Guns at ya, all at once! ouch!!
Rockets
0 vs 10 ...yes, I said rockets.
Bomb Payload
4800lbs vs 2500lb ...thats right! The Jug can carry more than half the payload of a B17!
Armor
none vs Cockpit armour plate ...you know you're comin' home in a Jug!

The P-47D could carry a max. of 2,500 pounds of bombs, but that shortened it's range - it's long range was for escort missions, not bombing.

The B-17 could carry a max. load of 17,600 pounds of bombs if needed, for shorter missions (so technically speaking, if they could have fit it aboard, the B-17 could have carried a P-47 at max. takeoff weight and dropped it on the enemy).

Otherwise the B-17 could carry a 6,000 pound load about 2,000 miles - or by your metric: over twice the load of a P-47 twice as far...

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

[...] if they could have fit it aboard, the B-17 could have carried a P-47 at max. takeoff weight and dropped it on the enemy [...]

The weirdo in me loves this idea.

 

[GrauGeist]

The weirdo in me loves this idea.

Sort of like...

First guy: "Hey, we have these tankettes, but they don't do well against the enemy"

Other guy: "Well, I have an idea..."

 

[Snautzer01]

The weirdo in me loves this idea.

Heard of Mistel? Mistel composite bomber aircraft

 

[Snautzer01]

Like this.

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

I'm thinkin' more along the lines of this:

 

[SaparotRob]

I'm thinkin' more along the lines of this:

They're headed to Saky Airbase. Putler is digging deep into his reserves.

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

They're headed to Saky Airbase. Putler is digging deep into his reserves.

I just like the idea of dropping Thunderbolts onto a problem.

 

[pbehn]

Like this.

View attachment 685406

I didnt realise it could carry a B-17, that's quite a payload.

 

[SaparotRob]

I just like the idea of dropping Thunderbolts onto a problem.

That'll leave a mark.

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

That'll leave a mark.

Check out the hook while the DJ revolves it.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

I posted this a few years back on another forum...kind of appropriate...
somebody was arguing the virtues of the beautiful B17.

Not really scientific...just a fun comparison.
B-17 Flying Fortress Bomber VS P-47 Thunderbolt Fighter
The beautiful B17 proved its worth in WW2, but when you look at the numbers, it just can't compete with the effectiveness and practicality of the Jug!

Crew required
10 vs 1 ...thats a lot of crew! and training, meals, medical and supplies. And a lot more lives at stake.
Weight
54000lb vs 17500lbs ...considerably more, because its big. Big like the airfield it requires!
Engines
4 vs 1 ...thats 4 times the fuel, 4 times the oil, 4 times the maintenance!
Range
2000mi vs 1030mi ...surprisingly more, but is it?
Speed
287mph vs 426mph ...hmmm ...Jug could land just about anywhere, refuel, and still beat the B17 to target!
Guns
9x 50cal MG stations vs 8x 50cal MG ...B17 has 13 MGs, but spread between 7 crew members, pointing in different directions -versus- one guy firing 8 50cal Guns at ya, all at once! ouch!!
Rockets
0 vs 10 ...yes, I said rockets.
Bomb Payload
4800lbs vs 2500lb ...thats right! The Jug can carry more than half the payload of a B17!
Armor
none vs Cockpit armour plate ...you know you're comin' home in a Jug!

So many errors on so many levels, I don't know where to start. I suggest you start reading flight manuals and calculate the real data. it looks like you relied on some enthusiast websites with some data extracted from Wikipedia.

 

[SaparotRob]

So many errors on so many levels, I don't know where to start. I suggest you start reading flight manuals and calculate the real data. it looks like you relied on some enthusiast websites with some data extracted from Wikipedia.

Is the comparison of the Mosquito v. B-17 a separate thread or part of a thread derailment? I was about to look it up but, again, I hit the reply button.
There's a lot of good information there about why the Mosquito couldn't replace the B-17. Some of that information is probably applicable to the P-47.