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Not quite the true story. From "The Squadrons and Units of the Fleet Air Arm"The Skua was replaced in 800 squadron in March/April 1941, 806 got Fulmar when(1940?), 803 got Sea Hurricanes in May 1941 and 801 got Sea Hurricanes in August 1941.
Different sources will give different dates as a number of months could pass between first issue of aircraft and being declared operational on them.
Tell that to all the Luftwaffe aircrew flying HE111s that never returned after meeting Skuas.Skua wins against Devastator. The Skua is faster and has four times the forward armament. Yokosuka B4Y aside, the TBD is about the only non-British torpedo-bomber the Skua can defeat.
Who else makes a fleet defence fighter that's slower than every torpedo bomber? Yet, the Skua was too slow to catch a B5N, G3M, G4M, SM.79, He 111 or TBF. Even the Fulmar is lacking in speed against some of these - it won't catch an Avenger or B6N, for example.
Wait, wasn't there an airfield in Bermuda that could take Skuas?"Although nobody was hurt from this last incident in Bermuda all the aircraft in the squadron had been damaged ..."
That was going to be my point: Enemy bombers are arriving at cruise speed:Yes, often meeting with them when they are at loaded cruising speed.
It's not the ones the Skuas caught, but the ones they didn't because the Skua was too slow, too low or too few.Tell that to all the Luftwaffe aircrew flying HE111s that never returned after meeting Skuas.
I don't quite understand what you're getting at. CAP from all nationalities frequently failed to prevent unescorted strikes from attacking their carriers. Any determined strike has a good probability of penetrating the CAP screen if the CAP doesn't have sufficient numbers or sufficient advance warning to gain altitude and position for interception; this was certainly the case for Illustrious's CAP at Malta.It's not the ones the Skuas caught, but the ones they didn't because the Skua was too slow, too low or too few.
The Fulmar is the FAA's all time highest scoring fighter. But it was unable to prevent unescorted dive bomber attacks from crippling HMS Illustrious and Formidable. Swap out those Fulmars with Skuas and things might be even worse for the RN.
Exactly what do you mean by "before the war"? 1939 or 1941? The Allies were not so "in the dark" about Japanese aircraft as is sometimes thought.One might compare the TBD to the Nakajima B5N1 (entered production in Nov 1937) and the modifications to the B5N2 (entered production in early 1940).
The western powers were not going to get a good look (or any look?) at the B5N1/2 before the war so looking at the TBD is the best the British can do.
The B5N1 prototype used powered wing fold and fowler flaps. They were taken off to lighten/simplify the plane for both production and maintenance.
The B5N1 managed to fold it's 50' 11" wing down to 23' 8" with an absence of elegance but also an absence of origami skills.
The Royal Navy was well aware, hence the Fulmar existed.It's not the ones the Skuas caught, but the ones they didn't because the Skua was too slow, too low or too few.
The Fulmar is the FAA's all time highest scoring fighter. But it was unable to prevent unescorted dive bomber attacks from crippling HMS Illustrious and Formidable. Swap out those Fulmars with Skuas and things might be even worse for the RN.
The Skua was more successful in practice than on paper because the British were years ahead of other nations in the application of radar. The Skuas off Norway conducted the first radar directed interceptions in history.Tell that to all the Luftwaffe aircrew flying HE111s that never returned after meeting Skuas.
What can the TBD do that the Albacore can't? If the FAA said to Fairey; remove the need for divebombing and a high G high Vne airframe, reduce the fuel capacity, strip out the armour and SS tanks do you think they could deliver a TBD? Probably, but why would the FAA want that?What is obvious was that the P-36 had problems with skin buckling and weak landing gear attachment points. And yet, after adding about 250lbs to the wing structure, they were operating the later P-40s at weights that well over 33% heavier gross weight clean at the same G load limits. Complete redesign? or partial?
A-20 went from the R-1830 engines and a 15,200lb gross weight to the R-2600 engines and a gross weight of 21,095lbs on the A-20C and 23,977lbs on the A-20J and max combat take-off of 27,000lbs. Yes they strengthen the spars and stuck the bigger tail on it. But total redesign??
Same for the rest of them
It is obvious.
Is that poor take off (low powered engine) or poor landing?
One might compare the TBD to the Nakajima B5N1 (entered production in Nov 1937) and the modifications to the B5N2 (entered production in early 1940).
The western powers were not going to get a good look (or any look?) at the B5N1/2 before the war so looking at the TBD is the best the British can do.
The B5N1 prototype used powered wing fold and fowler flaps. They were taken off to lighten/simplify the plane for both production and maintenance.
The B5N1 managed to fold it's 50' 11" wing down to 23' 8" with an absence of elegance but also an absence of origami skills.
Stick a more powerful engine in the TBD, fold the wing a bit shorter, cut down the Crystal Palace canopy and see what that gets you?
Not saying the British should put in the TBD into production. What I am saying is that comparing the TDB (flying for over two years) to the Albacore (still on paper, mostly) and having somebody besides C.G. Grey look at it, maybe somebody could have looked at the Fairey team and told them (in a disappointed headmaster voice) "you can do better".
Which people do you think needed pushed?Not saying the British should have adopted the TBD in 1938. Just that it could have pushed some people to think that perhaps the Albacore was not really that good and idea and they needed to get moving on what would become the Barracuda.
If they'd made it a single seater we might have had a winner. Of all the FAA's fighters only the Fulmar, Firefly, Venom, Vixen and Phantom were two seaters. Perhaps staying on topic we should include the Skua as well, though if I had to use my dive bomber as as a fighter I'd rather have SBDs over the Skua.Interesting essay on the Fulmar
Britain’s top-scoring naval fighter of World War II was not what you think it was
As World War II loomed into sight, the Admiralty was desperate for anything approximating a modern fighter aircraft. This need was met by a modified light dive-bomber originally intended for a canc…hushkit.net
Perhaps staying on topic we should include the Skua as well, though if I had to use my dive bomber as as a fighter I'd rather have SBDs over the Skua.
In May of 1940 when the Skuas are performing successful interceptions off the coast of Norway the SBD was not in service.If they'd made it a single seater we might have had a winner. Of all the FAA's fighters only the Fulmar, Firefly, Venom, Vixen and Phantom were two seaters. Perhaps staying on topic we should include the Skua as well, though if I had to use my dive bomber as as a fighter I'd rather have SBDs over the Skua.
What is your intent here?We've been over this ground a lot.
What is your intended message here?
The article has a number of errors. The 247mph figure is for the Fulmar 1 and Merlin VIII engine using 87 Octane fuel with a combat ceiling of 16000ft. Using 100 octane fuel speed was increased to 255mph. The Fulmar II had a Merlin 30 and a Vmax of 268mph at ~6500ft with a service ceiling of ~23000ft. The Fulmar was in development long before Jan 1940. The only real problem with the Fulmar was that there wasn't enough of them. We have to consider that the Fulmar introduced the monoplane folding wing fighter, with a powerful armament more than a year before either the IJN or USN. The Fulmar was due to be replaced in 1942 with the Fairey Firefly which had a planned speed of ~350mph and 4 x 20mm cannon. Even with it's historical performance (~320mph) , it would have been a formidable naval fighter aircraft in 1942, but it was, of course, delayed into service.Interesting essay on the Fulmar
Britain’s top-scoring naval fighter of World War II was not what you think it was
As World War II loomed into sight, the Admiralty was desperate for anything approximating a modern fighter aircraft. This need was met by a modified light dive-bomber originally intended for a canc…hushkit.net