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Not as many as some want to believe, given that there were far more Soviet P-39 aces with scores of at least 15 kills in Pokryshkin's Regiment than there were USAAC P-38 or USN Wildcat aces, and definitely more than FAA Martlet aces. Indeed, were there any FAA Martlet aces? IIRC, the only FAA ace in the Pacific was Major Ronald Hay (Major 'cos he was a Royal Marine), and he scored his kills in the Skua (1940 Norway), Fulmar (Med 1940-41) and the Corsair (1944-45 Pacific)."...how many Pokryshkin's wingmen got killed?".....
IIRC, the only FAA ace in the Pacific was Major Ronald Hay....
Indeed, were there any FAA Martlet aces?
Hey, didn't FAA pilot Richard "Dicky" Cork get to be an ace twice over? Once in the BoB in RAF Hurricanes, and then 5-in-a-day during the Pedestal convoy? Oh, but the latter achievement was after his unit upgraded from Martlets to the Hawker Sea Hurricane.According to Thomas the highest scoring Martlet/Wildcat pilot in the FAA was awarded four victories (2 + 2 shared), so no aces.
Hey, didn't FAA pilot Richard "Dicky" Cork get to be an ace twice over? Once in the BoB in RAF Hurricanes, and then 5-in-a-day during the Pedestal convoy? Oh, but the latter achievement was after his unit upgraded from Martlets to the Hawker Sea Hurricane.
http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/f4f/f4f-3-detail-specification.pdf
This is the full report showing the specs of the actual F4F-3 used in the test. It was armed, armored and had self sealing tanks
here are some testing reports;The above is not a test report. It's the manufacturer's specification that aircraft were supposed to meet. Unfortunately, AFAIK, no tested aircraft ever met the specs, and actual tests showed inferior performance.
here are some testing reports;
Gotta love mimeographs!
http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/f4f/f4f-3-1845.pdf
Sadly there was much more gun camera use than there was people with the foresight to keep the film for future use, and in any case on a deflection shot, it doesn't need a huge deflection before the camera shows nothing.That was very educational. The 20mm v. 50 cal thread mentioned the reliability and testing of aircraft armament. I wondered how they would test these weapons in peace time. Somehow spraying the sky with lead to see if the guns work seems a bit cavalier. But somehow they did it. I was also surprised that gun cameras were around in 1940. That was farsighted (unless we swiped that idea from our "cousins" too).
A very interesting post about a plane I'm interested in.
The above is not a test report. It's the manufacturer's specification that aircraft were supposed to meet. Unfortunately, AFAIK, no tested aircraft ever met the specs, and actual tests showed inferior performance.
View attachment 606743View attachment 606744Here are actual tests. 331 mph at 21,000 to 22,000 feet. That's about 15 mph faster than a Mark I Hurricane. I didn't see a climb rate in this test but I imagine the 6,200 pound Wildcat probably climbed pretty good. Eric Brown mentions a 3,300 feet per minute initial climb rate for the F4F-3 he tested. Replace the 4 50's and 450 rounds per gun with 8 303's and 500 rounds per gun and you've saved 350 pounds right there. A Wildcat also carried 145 gallons of fuel so you could either put in less fuel or station them farther away from the channel. An F4F-3 would have done fine. The British didn't need a different fighter, as I said early on in this thread, they had 2 fine aircraft, what they needed was pilots with gunnery training.
We've been through this. The F4F-4 was an overweight pig. The wing folding mechanism itself was several hundred pounds. The test I sent the pics of was the original 2 F4F-3's. Just changing from 4 50's to 8 303's saves 350-400 pounds. Armor? The Spitfire had a 73 pound sheet behind the pilot. The Hurricane with supposed self sealing tanks was notorious for drenching the pilot in fuel and then lighting him on fire. The F4F-3 with a 2 stage engine if employed at the BoB would have done fine. The test I sent the pic of showed an actual test of an actual F4F-3 with 4 50's that weighed 7,300 pounds at takeoff and did 331 mph at 21,000 feet on 981 hp. Actual test. The lighter F4F with 2 30's and 2 50's weighed 6,260 pounds and did 331 mph at 22,000 feet on 944 hp. Either of those are 15 mph faster than a Hurricane at that altitude. The F4F can bunt and follow a 109 down in a dive without rolling which neither the Spitfire or Hurricane can do.It seems that even in late Aug 1940 the two-stage PW engine was having development issues.
The lighter aircraft has no armour or SS tanks: It's not really comparable to a BoB Hurricane but would have been similar to the aircraft that Brown mentions.. This test is for two F4F-4 aircraft at ~7370lb:
http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/f4f/f4f-4-5262.pdf
results:
Gross weight (lbs)7369 / 7370
Airplane critical altitude (ft) 21100 / 19400
Vmax at critical altitude (mph) 318 / 319
so ~330mph seems a bit anomalous when several similar weight F4F-4s were tested (and spec was 318) to ~319mph.
This one at 7975lb managed only 316mph:
http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/f4f/f4f-4-02135.pdf
which met the revised spec for that weight. The F4F-4 specifications were revised downward when production aircraft could not meet the Aug 1941 specifications,.
Climb rate was measured using full throttle with the resulting high fuel consumption at high throttle yet climb was considerably worse than a BoB Hurricane 1 using normal climb power. With SS tanks the F4F-3/4 carried 120IG (F4F-3 at ~7550lb = full ammo and 120IG) versus 97 for a Hurricane 1 but it would burn more fuel during climb and combat while it's more economical low speed cruise would be less of an advantage during the BoB.
At roughly 200 pounds heavier than the F4F-3A, how is the F4F-4 an "overweight pig"?The F4F-4 would probably have done poorly in the BOB because it was an overweight pig.
We've been through this. The F4F-4 was an overweight pig. The wing folding mechanism itself was several hundred pounds. The test I sent the pics of was the original 2 F4F-3's. Just changing from 4 50's to 8 303's saves 350-400 pounds. Armor? The Spitfire had a 73 pound sheet behind the pilot. The Hurricane with supposed self sealing tanks was notorious for drenching the pilot in fuel and then lighting him on fire. The F4F-3 with a 2 stage engine if employed at the BoB would have done fine. The test I sent the pic of showed an actual test of an actual F4F-3 with 4 50's that weighed 7,300 pounds at takeoff and did 331 mph at 21,000 feet on 981 hp. Actual test. The lighter F4F with 2 30's and 2 50's weighed 6,260 pounds and did 331 mph at 22,000 feet on 944 hp. Either of those are 15 mph faster than a Hurricane at that altitude. The F4F can bunt and follow a 109 down in a dive without rolling which neither the Spitfire or Hurricane can do.
The F4F-4 would probably have done poorly in the BOB because it was an overweight pig. It would have been good for waiting at altitude, making a single diving pass at the bombers and just keep right on diving as it left the area. At least that's how I would have flown it.
And I'm showing a test at 7,300 pounds takeoff weight doing 331 mph at 21,000 feet. You could lose close to 400 pounds just changing from 4 50's and 450 rounds per gun to 8 303's and 500 rounds per gun, the same as the British fighters carried which would help on climb. I'm not sure how the F4F-3 1845 was setup that weighed 800 pounds less than F4F-3 1848. I know 1845 only had 2 50's and 2 30's instead of 4 50's but that wouldn't account for 800 pounds.I quoted tested performance figures for the F4F-4 at ~7370lb. The F4F-3 with full fuel and armour weighed 7556lb
And I'm showing a test at 7,300 pounds takeoff weight doing 331 mph at 21,000 feet. You could lose close to 400 pounds just changing from 4 50's and 450 rounds per gun to 8 303's and 500 rounds per gun, the same as the British fighters carried which would help on climb. I'm not sure how the F4F-3 1845 was setup that weighed 800 pounds less than F4F-3 1848. I know 1845 only had 2 50's and 2 30's instead of 4 50's but that wouldn't account for 800 pounds.