Italian contribution to the Battle of Britain

[ThomasP]

With a 40-60 mph speed advantage the A6M2 would be able to engage and disengage, but otherwise it is hard to say - both were extremely maneuverable. The armament maybe favors the A6M2, but the 2x 12.7mm on the CR.42 would be effective vs the A6M2 with no armour or SSFT. The A6M2 would be able to outlast the CR.42 in terms of fuel.

 

[Admiral Beez]

I have heard the canoli they brought was great for moral

Leave the Falco, take the cannolis.

 

[Admiral Beez]

If they made a movie, would it be a comedy? mnay books and articles on the Battle of Britain ignore the Italian effort.

The entire Italian effort in WW2 is a tragic comedy. All Mussolini had to do was look at Franco sitting in blessed neutrality and say, looks good for me too. You've already got a good empire, a strong navy, competitive air force, a well dressed army, and a growing economy. Just continue to rag the puck with Hitler until you see what happens by early 1942, by which time the Wehrmacht is bogged down in Russia and Japan has suicidally kicked the American beehive, and you'll be thanking yourself for staying out of things.

The only Italian contribution to the Battle of Britain should have been the sale of the three hundred Reggiane Re.2000 Britain wanted for the RAF. How does the Falco compare to the Hurricane, Spitfire or Bf 109? Its short endurance makes even the Spitfire seem longlegged.

 

[Vincenzo]

i don't think that the Re 2000 is short endurance comparate to Spit of '40

 

[pbehn]

The entire Italian effort in WW2 is a tragic comedy. All Mussolini had to do was look at Franco sitting in blessed neutrality and say, looks good for me too. You've already got a good empire, a strong navy, competitive air force, a well dressed army, and a growing economy. Just continue to rag the puck with Hitler until you see what happens by early 1942, by which time the Wehrmacht is bogged down in Russia and Japan has suicidally kicked the American beehive, and you'll be thanking yourself for staying out of things.

The only Italian contribution to the Battle of Britain should have been the sale of the three hundred Reggiane Re.2000 Britain wanted for the RAF. How does the Falco compare to the Hurricane, Spitfire or Bf 109? Its short endurance makes even the Spitfire seem longlegged.

With respect that is hindsight. At the time Benito saw a great chance of capturing much of N Africa while he thought no one would stop him. You could argue that Adolf was foolish adding to the fronts that would very shortly bleed him dry.

 

[Admiral Beez]

With respect that is hindsight. At the time Benito saw a great chance of capturing much of N Africa while he thought no one would stop him.

Indeed, but there's nothing there in the French bits and he should have known that the British would stomp him, as they did.

 

[pbehn]

Indeed, but there's nothing there in the French bits and he should have known that the British would stomp him, as they did.

When he got involved in 1940, Germany was stomping everyone, it wasnt unreasonable to think UK would be out of the picture.

 

[Admiral Beez]

When he got involved in 1940, Germany was stomping everyone, it wasnt unreasonable to think UK would be out of the picture.

True. Mussolini, Hitler and Tojo, the trio who through ignorance or arrogance wholly misunderstood their potential for success when future planning. Franco was the smartest of them all, sit tight and wait and see. I have to think there were advisors telling Mussolini that the British and Churchill are not the French, they will fight, their kit is better than ours, and their empire offers them millions of men.

 

[pbehn]

True. Mussolini, Hitler and Tojo, the trio who through ignorance or arrogance wholly misunderstood their potential for success when future planning. Franco was the smartest of them all, sit tight and wait and see. I have to think there were advisors telling Mussolini that the British and Churchill are not the French, they will fight, their kit is better than ours, and their empire offers them millions of men.

Maybe, but in 1939 France was seen as one of the strongest in the world, as far as army and aviation goes.

 

[Maxrobot1]

From what little I've seen, the Italian contingent was very unhappy with the cold and damp they experienced in France. Many of their bombers had wooden construction too.
Cant Z.1007 Alcione over Dover.

 

[MikeMeech]

From what little I've seen, the Italian contingent was very unhappy with the cold and damp they experienced in France. Many of their bombers had wooden construction too.
Cant Z.1007 Alcione over Dover.

Hi
On 20th October 1940 the Italian bomber strength of the Corpo Aereo Italiano was 61 Fiat BR.20M and 5 CRDA Cant Z.1007bis. Only the Z.1007bis had a wooden structure, so the majority of bombers, BR.20M, had metal structures although fabric covered.

Mike

 

[Vincenzo]

if i remember right the CANT were for the recce flight

 

[MikeMeech]

if i remember right the CANT were for the recce flight

Hi
That is correct.

Mike

 

[yulzari]

From what little I've seen, the Italian contingent was very unhappy with the cold and damp they experienced in France. Many of their bombers had wooden construction too.
Cant Z.1007 Alcione over Dover.

My father was unhappy with the cold and damp of Italy in the winter half of the year in 1943&1944 so the concept can hardly be a strange one to an Italian.

 

[Admiral Beez]

My father was unhappy with the cold and damp of Italy in the winter half of the year in 1943&1944 so the concept can hardly be a strange one to an Italian.

Imagine how the Italian Army in Russia (ARMIR) felt.

 

[pbehn]

My father was unhappy with the cold and damp of Italy in the winter half of the year in 1943&1944 so the concept can hardly be a strange one to an Italian.

I had a spectacular crash in snow going from Genoa to Lecco passing Milan, they get more snow than most would think.

 

[Andrew Arthy]

Hi,

Below are a couple of pages from Italian air force records about their early efforts over the Channel in October-November 1940 (in Italian, but easy enough to work out what is going on).



Cheers,
Andrew A.

 

[Admiral Beez]

From what little I've seen, the Italian contingent was very unhappy with the cold and damp they experienced in France.

They probably had better cooks and thus food than the Luftwaffe pilots.

 

[GrauGeist]

The entire Italian effort in WW2 is a tragic comedy. All Mussolini had to do was look at Franco sitting in blessed neutrality and say, looks good for me too. You've already got a good empire, a strong navy, competitive air force, a well dressed army, and a growing economy. Just continue to rag the puck with Hitler until you see what happens by early 1942, by which time the Wehrmacht is bogged down in Russia and Japan has suicidally kicked the American beehive, and you'll be thanking yourself for staying out of things.

The only Italian contribution to the Battle of Britain should have been the sale of the three hundred Reggiane Re.2000 Britain wanted for the RAF. How does the Falco compare to the Hurricane, Spitfire or Bf 109? Its short endurance makes even the Spitfire seem longlegged.

However, if Mussolini left Albania and North Africa alone, all the men and material that Germany either had committed or lost in North Africa would have been available to the Eastern Front.

 

[Admiral Beez]

However, if Mussolini left Albania and North Africa alone, all the men and material that Germany either had committed or lost in North Africa would have been available to the Eastern Front.

True, but would it have made a difference? The Afrika Korps in June 1941 consisted of two divisions, the 15th Panzer and 5th Light. By Nov 1941 a second Panzer division was added, with a second motorized division joining in early 1942. That's it, four German combat divisions. Meanwhile, per Wikipedia Germany fielded 153 divisions for Barbarossa, which included 104 infantry, 19 panzer and 15 motorized infantry divisions. Though, Italy staying out of the Balkans and Greece might have helped the Germans focus.