Ad: This forum contains affiliate links to products on Amazon and eBay. More information in Terms and rules
I think of the opening of day Unternehmen Zitadelle, July 5th, 1943, when JG 3, JG 51, JG 52 and JG 54 shot down more than 300 Soviet planes...all that in less than 24 hours, something that will compete if not surpass the so called Mariana´s Turkey Shot
Udet, how many LW losses were there?
The USN only lost a dozen or so fighters from air-to-air fighting all day long. The kill ratio for the USN was incredible.
syscom:
A more accurate figure for the number of soviet planes shot down by the Luftwaffe in the opening day of Zitadelle would be around 350; notice this number includes only those soviet planes shot down air-to-air by the Luftwaffe, so if we consider those soviet planes lost to Flak and accidents, then we can have an idea on how the VVS really fared during those days.
With regard to German losses during that same day ~45 planes were lost. (all types -fighters, dive bombers, bombers-, lost to all causes: enemy planes, AA guns, written off and accidents).
It is also important to highlight the fact the following day, July 6th, the horrific loss rate in the ranks of the VVS did continue with an additional ~170 soviet planes shot down by the Luftwaffe -here too, not included those lost to Flak and accidents-. If you follow the calendar, on July 7th, 8th and so on, the Luftwaffe continued to supply the VVS a harsh battering.
So considering the numbers for the first two days of Zitadelle, 48 hours, with ~420 soviet planes shot down by the Luftwaffe, it would be reasonable to assume it is unlikely to have any other air force outmatching the figure for more enemy planes destroyed in air-to-air combat in a specific period of time.
Yes, i noticed the thread title refers to "fighters", but what i do not have here with me are my papers that would show a breakdown of soviet fighter units who saw action at Kursk to determine the overall situation of those units engaged during the battle. However, and in view of soviet losses known in the opening day of Kursk, it is likely entire units did not return to their airfields.
I have not studied the "Mariana´s Turkey Shot" that very much; i know it was a catastrophe for the Japanese, the virtual end of Japan´s carrier borne air force, but it would not surprise me at all, that like in the aerial war over Europe, this particular episode too contains exaggerations.
Schlageter:
Sorry but what you said there is 100% incorrect; the horrific losses the VVS took in Kursk "had no effect" on them? You are saying that losing more than 1,000 planes IN A WEEK (July 5th-12th) in air-to-air combat only, did not have any effect on them.
This is the typical allied style for singing history; so tell me Schlageter, when the process of attrition went on a little longer the Germans commenced observing a "significant" drop off in the quality of their pilots, especially during the second half of 1944, while the soviets WHO NEVER stopped having horrific losses of piliots and planes attained exactly the opposite? How come?
Was the soviet training program for pilots similar to the one they had in the USA -or perhaps exceeded USA standards-? Were the political systems of the USA and USSR identical?
In other words, you say what the allies say, something like this:
One side (Germany) grew weaker while the other side (USSR) grew stronger...but what you are failing to mention and consider is the fact losses of pilots and planes for the soviet air force did not stop suffering horrific from beginning to end of the war.
I can really not believe so many people took the bait and really bought the bedtime story that as the war progressed the VVS observed the type of recovery depicted on most accounts.