Your favorite AFVs: what the designers got wrong?

[yulzari]

Lovely pictures stug3.

I can't help thinking that the top of a Valentine turret would come up about as far as the pistol port on the Grant's hull.Huge things.

 

[Denniss]

The M3 is really an ugly looking tank

 

[fastmongrel]

The M3 is really an ugly looking tank

I disagree I think it has a kind of lumbering majesty a bit like a war Elephant. True up against sporty looking beasts like the Panther and the T34 its not going to win any beauty contests but ugly isnt the word.

 

[Denniss]

Germany had a prewar multi-gun tank design but it looked smoother than the M3.
Neubaufahrzeug - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[stug3]

Matilda Scorpion flail tank

Close-up view of the revolving drum and chains at work on a Matilda Scorpion flail tank

 

[stug3]

Royal Engineers in a Daimler scout car.

 

[vinnye]

I have just been going through earlier posts on this thread and found a couple of guys liked the Comet. I had thought that at some point the Comet was being issued to British units in December 1944. So I checked and found that they were being delivered to the 11th Armoured Division - who were training on them and called back to Shermans to due the Battle of the Bulge emergency.
It would have been interesing if they had been able to re-train and use the Comet during this offensive?

 

[razor1uk]

I think the later Centurion rebuild hinted at earlier in this thread, by the Isrealis might be to do with the Namhon or similar-ish named; a HIFV/Medium-APC, A turretless Centurion chassis, with rear crew access and frontal engine and transmission... one of the toughest APC/Heavy Infantry Fighting Vehicle.
While I don't agree with their ultra-right politcs ethics, their understanding and creating armour know how is inspired and commendable even if its used sometimes wrongly.

 

[tomo pauk]

The APC conversion of the Centurion is Nakpadon, it does not feature the front engine and transmision. The heavy APC in the layout you're mentioning is the Namer, a Merkava based vehicle. For an "engine front, infantry back" APC version of Centurion, we need to cross a border, Jordanian Temsah APC is the vehicle you might want. Me likes.

 

[Ascent]

The Infantry tank A12, Matilda II,had to small a turret ring making upgunning inpractical. A real shame as the only thing that could effectivley penetrate it in the early yeafrs was the 88. Also hampered by the lack of HE for the 2pdr.

And that was something that with hindsight should have been sorted. 40mm HE existed for the Bofors so why couldn't they create one for the 2pdr which was a 40mm gun.

 

[fastmongrel]

The Infantry tank A12, Matilda II,had to small a turret ring making upgunning inpractical. A real shame as the only thing that could effectivley penetrate it in the early yeafrs was the 88. Also hampered by the lack of HE for the 2pdr.

And that was something that with hindsight should have been sorted. 40mm HE existed for the Bofors so why couldn't they create one for the 2pdr which was a 40mm gun.

HE ammo was available after all the 40mm Pom pom had HE shells but it doesnt seem to have been issued because the explosive effect was about the same as a hand grenade. Still anything should have been better than nothing.

 

[yulzari]

The Infantry tank A12, Matilda II,had to small a turret ring making upgunning inpractical.

Forgive me for my pedantry but the A12 was eventually fitted with a Cavalier 6 pounder turret but, by that time, the production resource costs of the A12 made it a far better choice to simply build Cavaliers/Cromwells.

 

[stug3]

A recovery team works on a Valentine tank of 30th Armoured Brigade, 11th Armoured Division, which broke down in a stream during exercises near Kirkby Lonsdale in Lancashire.

 

[Glider]

Daimler armoured cars had HE for their 2pd gun.

 

[stug3]

A US Army tank crew take a break somewhere in Tunisia.

Man, that huge side hatch had to be a real weak point. I wonder what the smallest caliber gun would be able to blow that thing off. I bet an 88 would take it off and leave a nice clean, round hole right through it.

 

[tomo pauk]

Forgive me for my pedantry but the A12 was eventually fitted with a Cavalier 6 pounder turret but, by that time, the production resource costs of the A12 made it a far better choice to simply build Cavaliers/Cromwells.

I'll make a comment about supposed high cost of Matilda.
UK have had produced many tanks during the ww2, that never were battlefield-worthy, hence Matilda should look like dirt cheap compared with the effort to design, test produce those.

And, indeed, it was fitted with 6pdr, 3 men turret, unfortunately just as a prototype.

added: the table showing the volumes of certain parts of the tank. Shows why there are good reasons for Valentine kinda struck the wall when upgrades are concerned. (open the picture in separate tab, for hi-res)

 

[yulzari]

Shows why there are good reasons for Valentine kinda stuck the wall when upgrades are concerned.
View attachment 232350

Forgive me Tomo. Your English is much better than my Croatian but what does 'kinda stuck the wall' mean?

 

[vinnye]

I believe he means "hit a wall" - came to a dead end?

 

[Shortround6]

Tomo may have left out the "r" "struck the wall".

But the chart quite clearly shows the problem, there is just no place to put "stuff" without redesigning and enlarging the vehicle which does away with a large part of starting with it to begin with.

 

[tomo pauk]

Ooops, indeed the 'r' got lost. I'll edit the post

As for the 'parts', better term should be the 'compartment', ie. 'engine' compartment (not 'engine' part).