190 or 109

[The Basket]

Just read a book by a Luftwaffe pilot called Norbert Hanning. Intersting...he saw the record kills in a day by Bully Lang.

He says he preferred the Fw190 over the Bf 109.

Was this the usual view or just his preference....

 

[ccheese]

I believe that the airplane the man trained in and fought in was his
preference. Just like the B-17 and the B-24. I never heard of one, who flew the other, saying it was better. Jimmy Stewart was a B-24 pilot and got
to fly the B-17 several times. He always said the B-24 was the better
airplane.

Charles

 

[The Basket]

Hanning trained on the 109. He almost drilled a fredrich into a building on take off....he put in full power and the torque reaction meant he went off course and just missed.

He also flew ground attack in the Gustav.

 

[Soren]

Many aces preferred the 109, but the 190 in its final form the Dora was a superior fighter.

 

[timshatz]

Think Ccheese has it right. Kind of a personal choice thing. You get used to the way a bird flies, go out and attack people in it and come back, it probably grows on you.

Personally thought the 190 was better. Radiat Engines are more resistant to damage and the narrow track landing gear on a 109 would make me nervous.

 

[Thorlifter]

Think Ccheese has it right. Kind of a personal choice thing. You get used to the way a bird flies, go out and attack people in it and come back, it probably grows on you.

Personally thought the 190 was better. Radiat Engines are more resistant to damage and the narrow track landing gear on a 109 would make me nervous.

Completely agree.......

 

[Watanbe]

Every time I read of the two being compared one thing that sticks out is that overall I think the FW190 is the better planes but in the right hands the 109 is superior. It seems many aces had incredible success in the 109 once they knew it like the back of their hand and understood its capabilities!

Do people agree or disagree?

 

[Konigstiger205]

The 109 may not have been the greatest fighter but it was very versatile and in experienced hands a deadly weapon...proof the large numbers of kills made by 109 pilots.

 

[drgondog]

The 109 may not have been the greatest fighter but it was very versatile and in experienced hands a deadly weapon...proof the large numbers of kills made by 109 pilots.

The Fw 190 had these attributes going for it.
Great Performance (as did the 109) the choices as a fighter/fighter would be personal.

Great mission versatility - one of the reasons was the load carrying capability of wing stores versus the 109 - so it would always have more capability in carrying external fuel or bombs

Great performance extendability via airframe modification(Fw 190A to Fw 190D) moreso than the 109 (in my opinion)

Greater Firepower in every base to external pack combination.

If I had to choose a version for my airforce it would be a clear choice - Fw 190D. I don't place the Ta 152 quite in that Geneology because in my opinion it was an even more radical redesign (like a P-51H to a A/B/C/D) from the Fw 190A when they popped the in-line engine and airframe/wing redesign.

 

[The Basket]

I think his choice was based on

Radial engine
Wide track undercarriage
Canopy
General airframe strength.

He flew over the east and being taken prisoner was not for the timid. So a good reliable ship was all important. Landing on rough ground and the fact the 190 didn't swing on take off was big too.

He even evaded hordes of Mustangs and shot down one of them. Using yo-yos and the nasty stall to dive into cloud.

 

[Konigstiger205]

The 190 was a great plane...bomb load...fire power and well armored but it was designed to be a high altitude interceptor.It did have a good looking cockpit tough.

 

[Dr.VanNostrin]

Say... What if you narrowed the scope alittle. Lets just say a Dora vs a nice 109G or F. (I'd love either...hehe) .. That takes the nice radial out of the question. Ok..so there they are. Your walking out to the line. Do you get in the 190 or the 109? I'm heading for my 190-d! How bout you guys?

Dr.V

 

[Njaco]

I'm racing you for it!

 

[Evil_Merlin]

Say... What if you narrowed the scope alittle. Lets just say a Dora vs a nice 109G or F. (I'd love either...hehe) .. That takes the nice radial out of the question. Ok..so there they are. Your walking out to the line. Do you get in the 190 or the 109? I'm heading for my 190-d! How bout you guys?

Dr.V

From the interviews and books the German Aces have written the early F models were considered some of the best pure dog fighters they flew at the time. But again we are talking a bit of time between the Fredrichs and the 190Dora's.

Lets narrow it down a bit more between the 109 F-4 and the Dora?

Gunther Rall loved his F.

Personally having sat in a Dora and an early G, the biggest thing is just how much more you can see in the Dora. The larger bubble canopy makes visibility just that much easier. The view over the nose on the gear was a bit tough, but then again, it wasn't exactly an easy thing over the G either. To me (and I'm only a SEL pilot) the Fw 190 Dora cockpit was better. Its laid out cleaner, a bit more comfortable and it just seemed better designed for pilots.

 

[Dr.VanNostrin]

Say Merlin,

That brings up another thing...After 6 hours in the office, you might be alittle sharper on the button in the d190 due to the cockpit layout.... Are we splitting hairs though? In terms of performance, I think the Fw190 has the 109 by a bit. Hell I love both! Our German friends could build a bird.

Dr.V

 

[Njaco]

I believe a few experten, including Galland, did not favor the 109F when it came out mostly for the reduction of firepower. I believe Galland liked the cannon through the nose of the Emil and was sorry it was removed from the Friedrich.

 

[Evil_Merlin]

I believe a few experten, including Galland, did not favor the 109F when it came out mostly for the reduction of firepower. I believe Galland liked the cannon through the nose of the Emil and was sorry it was removed from the Friedrich.

Yeah a few liked the firepower, but as a combat plane, most were quite vocal in the praise of the Fredrich over the Emil. Things started going downhill with the Gustavs. Yes, most pilots liked them, but they didn't fly as well as the Fredrichs.

 

[Soren]

I believe a few experten, including Galland, did not favor the 109F when it came out mostly for the reduction of firepower. I believe Galland liked the cannon through the nose of the Emil and was sorry it was removed from the Friedrich.

The nose cannon wasn't removed, the 20mm wing cannons of the Emil were however. The Friedrich was equipped with a 15mm nose cannon with a MV of 960 m/s (A great gun for deflection shooting) plus 2 x 7.92mm guns with a MV of 890 m/s.

 

[Njaco]

THX, Soren. Got confused there. I knew there was a reduction of the guns, my mistake for the nose.

 

[Evil_Merlin]

The nose cannon wasn't removed, the 20mm wing cannons of the Emil were however. The Friedrich was equipped with a 15mm nose cannon with a MV of 960 m/s (A great gun for deflection shooting) plus 2 x 7.92mm guns with a MV of 890 m/s.

Careful, there were there were a few distinct nose cannons used:
The F-0 and F-1 used the MG FF 20mm (MV 600 m/s)
The F-2 F-3 were fitted with the MG 151 15mm (MV 960 m/s)
The F-4 with the MG 151/20, which of course was the 20mm version (MV of 800 m/s)

Of course the F-5 and F-6 lost the nose cannon as they were recces.