pinehilljoe
Staff Sergeant
- 751
- May 1, 2016
It must have been an incredible site to see a squadron of B-36's in the air.
50s aircraft that originated during World War II
- Thread starter NTGray
- Start date
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SaparotRob
Unter Gemeine Geschwader Murmeltier XIII
Just wondering "what if" the USAAF went with the B-36 from the start instead of the B-29. I might be erroneously misremembering an article from Air Classics that the B-36 was first proposed in 1940.
FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
I think the B-29 and B-36 were separate specifications. The B-29 came about from a 1939 solicitation by the AAC for a "Super-bomber," the B-36 roots began in April, 1941.
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
The USAAC did have a "Bomber, Long Range" bomber request that resulted in the XB-19.
Project delays on the B-19 prototype kept it from reaching production status.
But it was a beast, with a 212ft. wingspan, max. range of 5,200 miles (add about 2,000 with aux. ferry tanks installed) and a bomb load of 18,700 lbs. internal or a max. of 37,000 lbs. using external racks (which shortened it's range, of course).
For size comparison, the B-36 was just 14 feet wider, 4 feet taller and 30 feet longer.
- Thread starter
- #105
Early 1941, if my source is correct, and that should have left plenty of time to get it airborne during the conflict if it hadn't been pushed back in the priority line.
FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
Not really - what was being solicited by the government was not practical based on the "technology of the day."
From Wiki - references left in text:
The USAAC sent out the initial request on 11 April 1941, asking for a 450 mph (720 km/h) top speed, a 275 mph (443 km/h) cruising speed, a service ceiling of 45,000 ft (14,000 m), beyond the range of ground-based anti-aircraft fire, and a maximum range of 12,000 miles (19,000 km) at 25,000 ft (7,600 m).[6] These requirements proved too demanding for any short-term design—far exceeding the technology of the day—[4] so on 19 August 1941, they were reduced to a maximum range of 10,000 mi (16,000 km), an effective combat radius of 4,000 mi (6,400 km) with a 10,000 lb (4,500 kg) bombload, a cruising speed between 240 and 300 mph (390 and 480 km/h), and a service ceiling of 40,000 ft (12,000 m);[3] above the maximum effective altitude of Nazi Germany's anti-aircraft guns, save for the rarely deployed 12.8 cm FlaK 40 heavy flak cannon.
SaparotRob
Unter Gemeine Geschwader Murmeltier XIII
I read that. It's just that since we have BoB Zeros and P-39s blasting Axis bases in the Antarctic, can't we have B-36s in 1943? I know I'm getting into Superfire territory.
- Thread starter
- #108
That's true. They had to soften the requested specs once or twice to make it feasible. Requested range, in particular, was reduced. But assuming no other major hiccups (a major assumption, I admit), I think they could have had it operational by late 1944 if the engine was ready. The first R-4360 Wasp was produced in 1944, but I haven't been able to find the date that it first hauled a plane into the air.
FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
As you mention a lot of "ifs." I think history played out the way it did because there was already an investment into the B-29. I think the XB-44 was the first aircraft to use the 4360
- Thread starter
- #110
Oh, I found something. Quoting from the report (it's an image file, so I can't copy and paste) it says that an example of the Pratt & Whitney R-4360 Wasp Major first ran on April 28, 1941, and the first flight with one was on May 25, 1942, in a Vultee Vengeance V-85. I suppose this means that 1944 was when full production began, but it is unclear.
And, yes, the actual history of the B-36 no doubt worked out for the best. But speculation is so much fun!
And, yes, the actual history of the B-36 no doubt worked out for the best. But speculation is so much fun!
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SaparotRob
Unter Gemeine Geschwader Murmeltier XIII
- Thread starter
- #112
The B-19 was indeed a beast. But it was seriously underpowered. It needed bigger engines, or more of them. Or both.
Here's one parked beside a DC-3..................................................................................and this one makes it even clearer.
Here's one parked beside a DC-3..................................................................................and this one makes it even clearer.
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Thumpalumpacus
Major
My home unit for the entirety of my enlistment. Mors ab alto, baby.
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
It started out with Allison V-3420 engines, but those were changed out in '43 for R-3350 radials.
I imagine that because of it's size, it should have had six engines (inline or radial), like the B-36.
Geoffrey Sinclair
Staff Sergeant
- 932
- Sep 30, 2021
The USAAF reports contract AC-11114 dated 20 June 1946 for 3 XP-86, 2 accepted in December 1948 and 1 in March 1949.
Initial P-86 contract AC-16013, for 33 aircraft from FY 1947 funds and proposed 217 aircraft from FY 1948 funds (as of 4 April 1947)
USN reports contract NOa(s)-5311 dated 1 January 1945 for 3 XFJ-1, all 3 accepted September 1947.
The FJ-1 production contract NOa(s)-6911 dated 28 May 1945, as of 1947 for 30 aircraft "service test order", accepted October 1947 to April 1948.
R-4360 Wasp Major production began in September 1943, with 8 built in for the military in 1943, 25 in 1944, 110 in 1945 and 380 in 1946, all rated at 3,000 HP, then 788 in 1947 rated at 3,500 HP. (Ratings from USAAF Statistical Digest) 1 B-36A accepted in August 1947, then production from June 1948, first B-36B in November.
In WWII terms the R-4360 used in production aircraft were for the 5 F2G-1 and 5 F2G-2 and only 2 of the F2G-1 were accepted to end August 1945. Boeing Renton finished B-29A production in June 1946, started B-50A (B-29D) in October 1947.
Initial P-86 contract AC-16013, for 33 aircraft from FY 1947 funds and proposed 217 aircraft from FY 1948 funds (as of 4 April 1947)
USN reports contract NOa(s)-5311 dated 1 January 1945 for 3 XFJ-1, all 3 accepted September 1947.
The FJ-1 production contract NOa(s)-6911 dated 28 May 1945, as of 1947 for 30 aircraft "service test order", accepted October 1947 to April 1948.
R-4360 Wasp Major production began in September 1943, with 8 built in for the military in 1943, 25 in 1944, 110 in 1945 and 380 in 1946, all rated at 3,000 HP, then 788 in 1947 rated at 3,500 HP. (Ratings from USAAF Statistical Digest) 1 B-36A accepted in August 1947, then production from June 1948, first B-36B in November.
In WWII terms the R-4360 used in production aircraft were for the 5 F2G-1 and 5 F2G-2 and only 2 of the F2G-1 were accepted to end August 1945. Boeing Renton finished B-29A production in June 1946, started B-50A (B-29D) in October 1947.
-Sorry for the delay in responding. I'm involved in a family issue. I hope that the following helps.
-The 1986 Goldwater-Nichols Department of Defense Reorganization Act of 1986 (GNA) did a couple of things that were supposed to cut down inter-service friction. #1 required training in joint operations for officers at the early field grade level: Major/Lt Commander. The course was taught at the Joint Forces Staff College, Naval Support Activity Hampton Roads, VA. This course was to prepare folks for the joint assignment(s) that were now required for promotion to flag rank. #2 no joint duty no promotion to General/Admiral. There were many other items but these were the most visible.
-I went back on active duty almost by accident and ended up spending most of my time in joint billets. I worked for and with members of all services, to include the Coast Guard. In some assignments we had some pretty high speed civilians as well: ambassadors and reps from the three letter agencies. I would say that 95% of the time there was no inter-service friction. My hardest part was personnel management. I found that completing Army Officer Evaluation Reports was difficult; completing the equivalent reports for Air Force, Navy and Marines (especially!) required immersion in another culture and discussion with members of that service to ensure that I didn't accidentally screw over someone by leaving something out or using inappropriate terminology.
-HOWEVER (there is almost always a however...) when I visited the Five Sided Squirrel Cage things were a bit different, more political and more parochial. Even flag officers I had worked for hummed a slightly different tune but softly enough that one couldn't quite catch the words. Where the Combatant Commands were primarily operational, Headquarters DoD focused on the future and on the budget.
-I don't believe that the US has ever had the military issues that other nations have, Imperial Japan perhaps being the worst example, but we have had issues. The creation of the Air Force was contentious and it will be interesting to see how the creation of the Space Force shakes out. All services have their foundations and priorities, those are things that attract people to join and serve. By the time that they reach flag rank they will have a thorough understanding of jointness but will have served, what, 30 years in one service and will, naturally, want to see that service continue and thrive.
AMCKen
Senior Airman
Some nice footage of 36s and 47s in this one. 
"Strategic Air Command 1955"
ok.ru
"Strategic Air Command 1955"
Strategic Air Command 1955 - James Stewart, June Allyson, Frank Lovejoy, Ba
Strategic Air Command 1955. James Stewart, June Allyson, Frank Lovejoy, Barry Sullivan, Frank Morgan, Bruce Bennett, Rosemary DeCamp Saga of the US Air Force special bomber unit during the Cold War era. A professional baseball player is recalled to military service because of the expert flying...
ok.ru
pinehilljoe
Staff Sergeant
- 751
- May 1, 2016
The B-52 was featured in A Gathering of Eagles. Another good one.Some nice footage of 36s and 47s in this one.
"Strategic Air Command 1955"
Strategic Air Command 1955 - James Stewart, June Allyson, Frank Lovejoy, Ba
Strategic Air Command 1955. James Stewart, June Allyson, Frank Lovejoy, Barry Sullivan, Frank Morgan, Bruce Bennett, Rosemary DeCamp Saga of the US Air Force special bomber unit during the Cold War era. A professional baseball player is recalled to military service because of the expert flying...
stug3
Staff Sergeant
The B-17G was converted to numerous variants and served into the mid 50s.
EB-17G engine test variant
SB-17G Rescue variant working in Saudi Arabia, 1950
SB-17G aircraft of USAF 5th Rescue Squadron with rescue boat mounted beneath fuselage and chin-mounted radar dome.
EB-17G engine test variant
SB-17G Rescue variant working in Saudi Arabia, 1950
SB-17G aircraft of USAF 5th Rescue Squadron with rescue boat mounted beneath fuselage and chin-mounted radar dome.
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Thumpalumpacus
Major
What were the -17s doing in Saudi? Got any info?
