A-10 to the Ukrainians? Recent comments by the Air Force secretary suggest a way out for the USAF from A-10 ownership

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Jul 26, 2022

I'll find out in September…

Dimlee · Aug 20, 2022

I'm sceptical about the final result. Still, I respect the effort of Alexander Gorgan and the others involved.
They can say "at least we tried".

Exclusive: Ukraine’s Secret Effort to Train for U.S. Jets

The program shows how Ukrainians are using invention, social media and disregard for protocol against Russia.

time.com

Glider · Aug 20, 2022

I have to be honest, I would spend my time asking Poland if they could train a cadre of air and ground crew on the F16. There is far more chance of the supporters of Ukraine supplying them with F16's of some type. And to have a sufficient number of people already trained on them would be a massive benefit.

Macandy · Aug 23, 2022

SaparotRob · Aug 23, 2022

Macandy said:

No one does a drunken rant better than Lazer Pig.

Macandy · Aug 23, 2022

SaparotRob said:
No one does a drunken rant better than Lazer Pig.

But he's right - they would be shot out of the sky like game birds over the Donbas.
They are larger and very significantly slower than the SU-25.

GrauGeist · Aug 23, 2022

Yeah, if the A-10 didn't have it's current electronic warfare upgrades and enhanced hardpoint weapons suite, it might be more vulnerable.

As long as there is no threat overhead, anything beneath the A-10 is in danger.

SaparotRob · Aug 23, 2022

We should send Ukraine a few anyway. Just to familiarize their pilots with American cockpits.
Who am I kidding? Send them so those guys can just screw around with them and have a blast in a safe rear area. Be the first on the block with A-10s!
While we're at it, send a dozen F-16s too. We got so many of them, we're using them for target practice! What the heck. Give them a few. See what they do with them. Ukraine has pleasantly surprised NATO so far.

GrauGeist · Aug 23, 2022

Time is of the essence in the current situation - transferring A-10s, F-16s, J-39s or any other non-Russian types would not only take pilot training, but ground-crew and maintenance training as well. There is also the need to work up a material support supply line, too.

This all takes time to get in place, something that is a precious commodity at the moment.

I'm sure that in time, the Ukraine armed forces will transform into a very potent member of NATO with the most current hardware, perhaps even with the F-35.

Admiral Beez · Aug 25, 2022

The day the UAF needed the A-10 was with that huge traffic jam of Russian kit north of Kiyv back in Feb-Mar.

Now, I'm sure they'd prefer F-16s. What's taking the US and NATO so long? Is it still a matter of training and maintenance/parts?

USA announces largest Ukraine weapons buy to date, but still no fighter jets

The $3 billion military aid package from the Biden administration includes UAVs, a new counter-UAV system and several advanced air defence platforms, but the transfer of US-made fighters has not yet been approved.

www.flightglobal.com

Thumpalumpacus · Aug 25, 2022

Admiral Beez said:
Is it still a matter of training and maintenance/parts?

Most likely yes. I've recounted several times how it took the 301st TFW at my base 8-9 months to be declared operational after transitioning from F-4Es to F-16As -- and those were pilots who spoke English and were familiar with the English measurements American planes use.

ThomasP · Aug 25, 2022

buzz-buzz

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Aug 25, 2022

Admiral Beez said:
Now, I'm sure they'd prefer F-16s. What's taking the US and NATO so long? Is it still a matter of training and maintenance/parts?

It really has not been a long time.

Seriously. I'm not sure you understand the logistics and training involved to get a pilot trained so they are proficient in an aircraft. These aren't single engine Cessna's that anyone with half a brain can fly. They are complex aircraft that take time to become proficient in.

Then you have the parts logistics that has to be worked out.

Then you have to train the maintenance personnel. They aren't working on a Ford Fiesta for crying out loud.

Admiral Beez · Aug 25, 2022

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:
It really has not been a long time.

Seriously. I'm not sure you understand the logistics and training involved to get a pilot trained so they are proficient in an aircraft. These aren't single engine Cessna's that anyone with half a brain can fly. They are complex aircraft that take time to become proficient in.

Then you have the parts logistics that has to be worked out.

Then you have to train the maintenance personnel. They aren't working on a Ford Fiesta for crying out loud.

Fair enough. So, what is a realistic date we can see UAF F-16s? Presumably there are UAF pilots and ground and parts/logistics personnel in Europe training now on the F-16 and preparing a supply chain and maintenance/support plan. Do you think we'll see UAF F-16s before end of year, or before the one year anniversary in Feb 2023?

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Aug 25, 2022

You can't wiggle your nose or nod your head and 4 weeks later jets magically appear, pilots can fly them, and maintenance personnel have the knowledge to troubleshoot and keep them in the air.

Admiral Beez · Aug 25, 2022

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:
You can't wiggle your nose or nod your head and 4 weeks later jets magically appear, pilots can fly them, and maintenance personnel have the knowledge to troubleshoot and keep them in the air.

View attachment 683812

View attachment 683813

What's the point of this post beyond a sarcastic dismissal? I'm here to learn, not be turned away. Why not instead respond to my questions above?

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Aug 25, 2022

Admiral Beez said:
Fair enough. So, what is a realistic date we can see UAF F-16s? Presumably there are UAF pilots and ground and parts/logistics personnel in Europe training now on the F-16 and preparing a supply chain and maintenance/support plan. Do you think we'll see UAF F-16s before end of year, or before the one year anniversary in Feb 2023?

Maybe. You have to remember that pilots typically get hundreds of hours on training. Maintenance personnel training can take months. My H60 training took 6 months, and that was not a complex fighter jet.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Aug 25, 2022

Admiral Beez said:
What's the point of this post beyond a sarcastic dismissal? I'm here to learn, not be turned away. Why not instead respond to my questions above?

Relax, don't get your nickers in a bunch. It was meant to be a post in gest. Laugh a little, and stop being so uptight.

I was already posting it as a follow on to my other post while you were creating your post. You were just faster because i was searching for the animated gifs.

Notice, I answered your other post as well.

FLYBOYJ · Aug 25, 2022

Admiral Beez said:
Now, I'm sure they'd prefer F-16s. What's taking the US and NATO so long? Is it still a matter of training and maintenance/parts?

How many times do you have to be told, aside from all the politics that go along in situations like this, you don't snap your fingers and set up a squadron of F-16.

YES - it's still a matter of training and maintenance/parts

FLYBOYJ · Aug 25, 2022

Admiral Beez said:
Fair enough. So, what is a realistic date we can see UAF F-16s? Presumably there are UAF pilots and ground and parts/logistics personnel in Europe training now on the F-16 and preparing a supply chain and maintenance/support plan. Do you think we'll see UAF F-16s before end of year, or before the one year anniversary in Feb 2023?

This is from Air Force Magazine, an official publication of the USAF

Ukraine Flies ‘Suicide Missions’ With MiGs, Awaits U.S. Decision on F-16 Training | Air & Space Forces Magazine

Ukrainians described the challenges they face flying MiGs against newer Russian jets as they wait for a U.S. decision on F-16 training.

www.airforcemag.com

A-10 to the Ukrainians? Recent comments by the Air Force secretary suggest a way out for the USAF from A-10 ownership

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