A Western 'Sturmovik': great asset or waste of resouces?

[Juha]

Hello Michael
especially Emelianenko's memoirs, at least the Finnish edition of it, is very good indeed. Helped to understand the war on the Eastern Front and how bloody it was.

Juha

 

[CharlesBronson]

The definitive WW2 western Shturmovik was the Republic P-47 thunderbolt, It actually could load more bombs than the Ilyushin, you dont need anything more.

 

[Altea]

"... In summer of 1941".

There were, what ..? .... 200 Sturmoviks ... in service? The crews weren't trained, they had no rear gunner,

And hurricanes, had rear gunners?

no tactics had been developed, and they certainly weren't armed with rockets.

Why not? RS rockets were experienced from 1935 to 1937, adapted in Red Army in 1938, mass-produced from 1940.

Speaking of tactics .... Sturmovik tactics were the same tactics as T-34 tactics ... massed assault.

And so what? Typhoon were used with extreme parcimony?

In North Africa .....? no one is saying they would be useless ... but I don't think they would have been any improvement on the canon-armed Hurricane or the Beaufighter. By 1941 what the British needed in N. Africa was reliable tanks ... and lots of them [another thread, another topic, mon ami].

Another tread yes, but if you don't have the better tanks, and least you can create the best battle conditions for them, by air or artillery support. It was not like that in Normandy?
Well, if you think that Hurricanes and Beaufs are the best assault planescompared specialised ones as Il-2 (Stuka or HS-129), it will be your own problem soon...

MM

RCAF Typhoons [and there were plenty in '44 -'45] carried 2x500 lb bombs, not rockets, IIRC. RAF Typhoons used rockets.

And so what? They were better?

 

[merlin]

Hello
if some one is interested in Il-2 combat history I can recommend two books, Osprey's Oleg Rastrenin's Il-2 Shturmovik Guards Units of WW 2 and the memoirs of Vasili B. Emelianenko.
Juha

Or if you're interested in tactics (and not 'massed'):
- Close Air Support by Peter C Smith,
- Strike from the Sky by Richard P Hallion
- Red Phoenix by Von Hardesty

 

[michaelmaltby]

"... And hurricanes, had rear gunners?"

Good one, Altea , Bazinga.

"... Why not? RS rockets were experienced from 1935 to 1937, adapted in Red Army in 1938, mass-produced from 1940. "

We were talking rockets on Sturmoviks, re: June 22, 1941, Altea, not "rockets" in the USSR in general, since Tzar Nick ....

"... And so what? Typhoon were used with extreme parcimony?"

Don't know if "Cab Rank" is parcimonious or not, Altea.





"... And so what? They were better?"

Oh, Altea, why do I have to chose ....?

MM


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qexMo-2ZLos

 

[Altea]

".

We were talking rockets on Sturmoviks, re: June 22, 1941, Altea, not "rockets" in the USSR in general, since Tzar Nick ....

MM

Yes we were, and we are. What else?
So again, rockets were used by ShAPs (air assaults regiments) since 1939.
Not as widely as it should be, i admit, but used anyway.

About Il-2 you make the point, only 18 of them were dipatched in western districts on june 1941, the 1st. Maybe more for the 22th.
The first fully equipped regiment (4st ShAP) joined the front and fired its rockets at the end of june the 27th, from Perov end Rastrenin book.

About the RS rockets, the point is mine, since they were commonly fired from I-15, I-15bis, I-153, DI-6 and others retro-planes serving in ShAPs in this summer.

Regards

 

[stug3]

The US UK air forces didnt need a Sturmovik. They had P-40s, Mustangs, P-47s, Mosquitos, Typhoons Tempests which all proved to be extremely effective for CAS. The Allies established air superiority in every theater in which they faced the LW. FW-190s obviously couldnt stop them and Ta-152s and Ar-234s that existed mainly on paper were about as potent as Tigers Panthers with no ammunition or oil.

 

[Tankworks]

Would the Whirlwind have been worth developing further beyond its limited use in the anti-shipping role?